59 replies to this topic

[Chrysander]

Put health regeneration on the easier settings, and leave it out for Hard / Pro modes. Then everyone wins.

I personally don't want it because it encourages risk-taking - which does not fit in with how I perceive Hitman to work. You should be rewarded for making the right move and learning how things work, not by just giving something a shot and not having a consequence.

But, for casuals, they don't want to be punished for taking risks, so health regeneration suits them.

Edited by Chrysander, 27 August 2011 - 08:43 AM.

[Joef360]

I've been noticing that every game coming out in recent years has regenerative health, batman arkham asylum, Splinter Cell DA/C, and many other games. Hitman has never had regenerative health but with IO making it accessible as possible, this worry's me. Do you think H:A should have regenerative health or just old fashion health bar?

It will have a health bar. they've tried to make it as realistic as possible.

[Jootboo]

I don't mind regenerative health bars that actually have a visible bar that has sections to it so much, just not the ones where the screen goes bloody or dimmed and returns to normal as your health recovers itself to maximum

recovering from getting shot almost dead to maximum health is such a stretch, but if it has sections and only refills a section that wasn't completely gone (such as from a fraction of health to one third of healthbar), and it only refills when you are crouching or with some sort of painkillers then I wouldn't mind.. then its like you could believe the character is just focusing mind over matter or the like

Edited by Moss, 27 August 2011 - 11:15 AM.

[abeg]

surely hope not. I hope for a damage system! messed up costume and stuff, cuts and brusies. very neat stuff.

[Violenceinsilence]

Health regeneration is a bad idea it makes the game so unrealistic. I think when you get shot that should be it, I remember when I was playing blood money on professional difficulty and I was shot in the head and could still run around. When you're shot that should be it Hitman is a stealth game not a shooter like CoD

[Choronzon]

The healthbar should be tied in with the difficulty level (obviously). If you look at any modern games, with increased difficulty level comes increased weapon lethality. This fixes everybody's problems and frustrations. On the easiest modes you can take a lot of damage and the healthbar depletes slowly. On higher and professional difficulty just a few well-placed shots should mean death. This enforces both realism (on the weapons and health front) as well encourages the player to seek the subtle, silent and non-firepower related solution to an assassination contract, thus encouraging a stealthy approach over a Rambo run-n-gun session.

for casuals, they don't want to be punished for taking risks, so health regeneration suits them.

This is so typical for a certain demographic of today's gamers. They want all the fancy stuff, but don't want the risks, the obligations or the consequences of their own actions. Why is it deemed necessary to market to these dumb jocks again? They add nothing to a franchise's existing fanbase, besides unfounded complaints and asking everything be "sanitized" for their consumption.

Edited by Choronzon, 28 August 2011 - 02:14 AM.

[Watson]

This is so typical for a certain demographic of today's gamers. They want all the fancy stuff, but don't want the risks, the obligations or the consequences of their own actions. Why is it deemed necessary to market to these dumb jocks again? They add nothing to a franchise's existing fanbase, besides unfounded complaints and asking everything be "sanitized" for their consumption.

I think what they (‘new’ generation of players) add most is sales, in the end a game's success is measured in money and reception. From a financial perspective, if a game sells well then it's a success. Whether a game is a success based on gameplay and storyline is another category, however I believe it's the most important one. I see a good example of this in the film industry - take a look at the new Transformers film, it received mostly negative reviews, but amazingly it's become the 5th highest grossing film in history, beaten only by Avatar, Titanic, Harry Potter and the Lord of the Rings. Absolution may want to cater to a new audience, and that's fine - but it shouldn't just focus on these 'new' players. While the doors are opened for a broader spectrum of gameplay approaches in Absolution, if the game still maintains an area of gameplay that caters for the long-time (so-called 'hardcore') players, it could work well. If IOI make Absolution a game with a good reputation amongst all players, then we'll most definitely see the return of 47 in a subsequent game.

Edited by Watson, 28 August 2011 - 03:08 AM.

[Dev J Chand]

I think what they (‘new’ generation of players) add most is sales, in the end a game's success is measured in money and reception. From a financial perspective, if a game sells well then it's a success. Whether a game is a success based on gameplay and storyline is another category, however I believe it's the most important one. I see a good example of this in the film industry - take a look at the new Transformers film, it received mostly negative reviews, but amazingly it's become the 5th highest grossing film in history, beaten only by Avatar, Titanic, Harry Potter and the Lord of the Rings. Absolution may want to cater to a new audience, and that's fine - but it shouldn't just focus on these 'new' players. While the doors are opened for a broader spectrum of gameplay approaches in Absolution, if the game still maintains an area of gameplay that caters for the long-time (so-called 'hardcore') players, it could work well. If IOI make Absolution a game with a good reputation amongst all players, then we'll most definitely see the return of 47 in a subsequent game, hopefully one which sees 47 travel internationally in a return to the ‘roots’ set in the first three games.

In my opinion, long term artistic value is more important than initial financial success.
But of course, there must be a balance. None wants to make something which only he/she can like.
I think it's better to give IO a chance- because they still would want to make it a stealth oriented game. I don't think the game would turn into a completely unrecognizable game, just for some changes and improvements..
I agree with you, Watson!

[Cerb]

Hmm.....Cerb. I gave my views on the health bar already.
Yes, regenerative health won't be a problem if 47 dies quickly to shots. And yes, it would also encourage people to take risks( though I feel that the game should encourage stealth over firefights)
But, I thought you'd come up with some arguments for regenerative health. After all, you've being supporting 47 being more maneuverable and being able to sense the environment around him in a sharp way, by showing that he's superhuman.
Anyway, leave it. Just thought that you would come with some arguments !

Oh no, no, I'm not saying that it would make sense for 47 to be able to recover from a shot to the head or having his heart blown out, but If they approached it with a Shock Damage regen model, meaning that 47 would be able to regenerate up to a certain amount of health, not all of it, dependent entirely on the severity of the wounds (heavy wounds, like explosive splash damage or heavier calibers, being impossible to recover from, whereas the effects of lighter ones, like melee attacks, falling damage or grazes, would wear off) it would make sense with the character. All too often, I've lost more than half my health stepping down from elevator hatches in BM, and shoddy damage physics like that ended up dictating the rest of the level for me, causing me to restart altogether. But that said, having seen stealth games use regen health even in the standard regain-all-health fashion don't affect the gameplay at all, this would be one of them. Not saying it's what should happen, as I'd really like the Shock Damage system in Hitman as opposed to a static meter, but it wouldn't change how the game is played. Not to mention the fact that it's a sandbox game that's always encouraged all playstyles, so whatever SOP you take through a level, it's what you intended to do anyway; not what the game forced you to do. I feel that influencing that sort of gameplay by limiting what the player has at their disposal simply misses the point of Hitman altogether. This series has always laid out everything you needed for every possible approach; it only let you decide which approach you were going to take and how you were going to take it. I'm all for the player having more and getting more. Just so long as they apply checks and balances to keep it from getting too easy.

Edited by Cerb, 28 August 2011 - 08:12 AM.

[Dev J Chand]

Oh no, no, I'm not saying that it would make sense for 47 to be able to recover from a shot to the head or having his heart blown out, but If they approached it with a Shock Damage regen model, meaning that 47 would be able to regenerate up to a certain amount of health, not all of it, dependent entirely on the severity of the wounds (heavy wounds, like explosive splash damage or heavier calibers, being impossible to recover from, whereas the effects of lighter ones, like melee attacks, falling damage or grazes, would wear off) it would make sense with the character. All too often, I've lost more than half my health stepping down from elevator hatches in BM, and shoddy damage physics like that ended up dictating the rest of the level for me, causing me to restart altogether. But that said, having seen stealth games use regen health even in the standard regain-all-health fashion don't affect the gameplay at all, this would be one of them. Not saying it's what should happen, as I'd really like the Shock Damage system in Hitman as opposed to a static meter, but it wouldn't change how the game is played. Not to mention the fact that it's a sandbox game that's always encouraged all playstyles, so whatever SOP you take through a level, it's what you intended to do anyway; not what the game forced you to do. I feel that influencing that sort of gameplay by limiting what the player has at their disposal simply misses the point of Hitman altogether. I'm all for the player having more and getting more. Just so long as they apply checks and balances to keep it from getting too easy.

That's what I was saying! They shouldn't make shooting too easy..
But, it's all fine anyway. And yes, the physics should be fixed, as now you can actually use environmental objects and properly deliver melee attacks in the game.

[Cerb]

I was referring to the damage physics, actually. Like how 47 can be killed by a total of four punches to the gut or become practically debilitated after landing from a height of eight feet. It really is annoying whenever it happens in the game, and none of it ever makes sense.

[sgg847]

I've been noticing that every game coming out in recent years has regenerative health, batman arkham asylum, Splinter Cell DA/C, and many other games. Hitman has never had regenerative health but with IO making it accessible as possible, this worry's me. Do you think H:A should have regenerative health or just old fashion health bar?

Really? But what was in Hitman Blood Money? You probably will say that it is not automatic regenerative health like in games mentioned above. What if the health bar had the ability to automatically recover? Won't it be similar to regenerative health? Probably you will say that HBM does not force you use it because it is manual operation. Of course, I will agree, but my opinion simple all this is just a simple cheating.

Hitman is a stealth game.

This game is a stealth as well as a shooter.

Put health regeneration on the easier settings, and leave it out for Hard / Pro modes. Then everyone wins.

Nobody wins

The healthbar should be tied in with the difficulty level (obviously). If you look at any modern games, with increased difficulty level comes increased weapon lethality. This fixes everybody's problems and frustrations. On the easiest modes you can take a lot of damage and the healthbar depletes slowly. On higher and professional difficulty just a few well-placed shots should mean death. This enforces both realism (on the weapons and health front) as well encourages the player to seek the subtle, silent and non-firepower related solution to an assassination contract, thus encouraging a stealthy approach over a Rambo run-n-gun session.

All genius is simple! This is the logic all devs nowadays. But the developers are making money while dupes buying into this simple promotional gimmick.

Edited by sgg847, 29 August 2011 - 07:49 AM.

[Dev J Chand]

I was referring to the damage physics, actually. Like how 47 can be killed by a total of four punches to the gut or become practically debilitated after landing from a height of eight feet. It really is annoying whenever it happens in the game, and none of it ever makes sense.

Yeah, I know. Even the damage physics needed improvement in the past games.
However, what really needed improvement was the physics at close range. The way weapons would do damage at close range was quite pathetic. Heck, most melee weapons were useless except for stealth kills.
I hope the physics improves in Absolution. Oh, sorry for going off topic. Just wanted to make some points !!

Edited by Dev J Chand, 29 August 2011 - 09:17 AM.

[sgg847]

I was referring to the damage physics, actually. Like how 47 can be killed by a total of four punches to the gut or become practically debilitated after landing from a height of eight feet. It really is annoying whenever it happens in the game, and none of it ever makes sense.

Not makes a sense? Ironically, but for the last 3 weeks 1 person died after an uppercut and the other injured his knee after falling from a height of 60 centimetres.

[Chrysander]

if the game doesn't have health regeneration on the hard settings, and does have it on the easier ones, nobody is in a position to complain. What would be the problem with it, or are you just trolling now? You seem to just want to argue for the sake of it

Using painkillers / med kit is not what people are talking about here, they are talking about having your health come back indefinitely. Use of painkillers means that your health bar is effectively made longer, but it is still limited.

The trouble with regenerating health is that you can survive a gun fight after taking heavy fire, then just wait and heal, then go into your next gun fight, and that's not what Hitman is about to many people, it takes away the purpose/challenge. But, as I said, to inferior players, it appeals, so put it on the easier difficulties.

Edited by Chrysander, 29 August 2011 - 10:16 PM.

[abeg]

The trouble with regenerating health

is that it's gay . By gay means it's just plain too simple. But if everything is made for different difficulties there's really no problem. But let's admit it, some people who have a family, wife, children, just want's to pick up a game and be entertained with minor holdbacks, regenerating health is a part for that experience. But that's not something I would spend money on, I game that you know you would finish easily. There's no adventure in that.

Edited by abeg, 30 August 2011 - 04:17 AM.

[Herbert]

Was it possible to "bleed out" in Blood Money? I recall that if you got shot up pretty bad in Professional mode and didn't take any adrenaline or pain pills, your health would slowly keep going down.

Required for Absolution (imo):

• Bullet decals
• Guards limp if you shoot them in the leg, or can't shoot straight if shot in the arm.
• Same should go for 47. If he gets clipped in the leg, give him a limp animation or something. Make aiming shakey if shot in the arm.
• Head-shots lethal unless wearing combat helmet

Let's hope for some realism... They had this stuff in Goldeneye for the N64 in 1997... I think it would be accepted by gamers today, almost 15 years later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsZmoFZ5jjE#t=12s

Edited by Herbert, 30 August 2011 - 10:43 AM.

[sgg847]

if the game doesn't have health regeneration on the hard settings, and does have it on the easier ones, nobody is in a position to complain. What would be the problem with it, or are you just trolling now? You seem to just want to argue for the sake of it

Forum is a place for discussion but not a polling place. If I do not agree with your opinion then I do not only say so but also give my arguments but do not repeat my positon from post to post and do not pin a label on my opponents like someone does.

Using painkillers / med kit is not what people are talking about here, they are talking about having your health come back indefinitely.
The trouble with regenerating health is that you can survive a gun fight after taking heavy fire, then just wait and heal, then go into your next gun fight, and that's not what Hitman is about to many people, it takes away the purpose/challenge. But, as I said, to inferior players, it appeals, so put it on the easier difficulties.

First - we speak about "Hitman" . Hitman has own gameplay elements which not similar to gameplay of shooter and stealth games.
Second when we speak about one element of system then we must understand all interaction between this part of gameplay and his other parts. All the gameplay elements are interconnected.
Do you never ask yourself why is a shooter (it is game where gamer uses at least 1000 bullets against at least 100 bots) has checkpoint system and divides on several difficulty and gamer chooses 'retry last checkpoint' at least 18907654908 times before he completes a game and then with false feelings that now he super puper "hardcore" he ejects disc and places it to a drawer of his table and then goes to a store to buy another such stupid game.
Most gamers think that if a hero shooting during gameplay then it is shooter however some missions have only 10 or 15 bots but only 5 of them have weapons!
Here another example. They say (gamers but not devs because devs are making money) that on easy mode hero must have more life, AI must be stupid and die after one or 2 shots, but on HARD difficulty AI must be super smart and strong but already hero must die after 1 of 2 shots and all this will force you play stealth on hard mode!

Use of painkillers means that your health bar is effectively made longer, but it is still limited.

Where is logic in creation such complicated system instead of increase a length of a health bar.

[Chrysander]

Not sure what your point is, again it seems like you just want to argue - and you didn't address what I said initially, you just said "nobody wins" which is no explanation at all. But I don't see you as an opponent, it's just a conversation. I try to communicate and understand an underdog on a forum and I see you are in a lot of confrontations on this forum, so I just want to know what you're saying, but I can't understand. The only explanation to me is that you are here to enjoy arguments - that is what I mean by troll, someone who comes to forums to disagree for whatever reason, and in that case the discussion is pointless to me, some people enjoy it, I guess that is up to them.

I don't understand what you're trying to say in your 2nd paragraph.

Regarding health kits / pain killers - You were saying that in Blood Money there is already regenerating health, and my point is that it's not the same as continually regenerating health. I am not saying that pain killers are a good idea. In effect they do increase the amount of health you have per mission. Why not just have a longer bar? I agree - it is the same thing. But I'm not even debating that, just clarifying that there is a difference between never-ending regeneration, and just having 1 painkiller.

[sgg847]

I don't understand what you're trying to say in your 2nd paragraph.

Regarding health kits / pain killers - You were saying that in Blood Money there is already regenerating health, and my point is that it's not the same as continually regenerating health. I am not saying that pain killers are a good idea. In effect they do increase the amount of health you have per mission. Why not just have a longer bar? I agree - it is the same thing. But I'm not even debating that, just clarifying that there is a difference between never-ending regeneration, and just having 1 painkiller.

Now I will be more clear.
Maybe you will find difference why devs have included the regenerative elements in Blood Money but Silent Assassin and Hitman Contracts have got just health bar?