26 replies to this topic

[Nitro]

A few people have commented on the noticeably speedy crouched movement 47 displays in the recent Rosewood footage. Since movement speed and noise are significant gameplay aspects to any stealth game, I figured it could be worthwhile to have a centralized place to discuss it - and maybe the IO devs can weigh in on how these mechanics work if they get a chance to read this thread.

From the footage, it seems to me that there are two different movement speeds: walking and running, regardless of whether you are standing or crouched (that is, walking while standing and walking while crouched is same speed; running while standing and running while crouched is same speed). Walking makes no noise, running makes noise - again, regardless of whether you are standing or crouched. This would explain why 47 is able to sneak up on people in RFYL without crouching (marble bust, nightstick kills) and why in the Rosewood footage the one guy who 47 stabs with the syringe hears him coming and turns around even though 47 is crouched. There is one clip from Rosewood that is inconsistent with this rule, and that's the guy 47 chases down while crouched all the way down the hallway and snaps his neck, so I'm not sure what's going on there.

But, for argument's sake let's say the rule is walking is silent and running is noisy, and standing/crouched has no affect on how much noise you make. I would be fine with this system so long as there's some sort of incentive not to be crouched all the goddamn time. This is where I think social awkwardness would (hopefully) come into play. I feel like, during moments of being in plain sight and trying to go unnoticed (whether in disguise or not), walking around crouched should slowly build up suspicion, cos in real life it would be a weird fucking thing to do and make people around you very uncomfortable. Not to the point where they start shooting you for it, but maybe to one of the intermediate states the devs have described (e.g., cops trying to arrest you - maybe in other levels causing the guard NPC's just to start watching you more carefully or following you or something).

All in all I just think there has to be a point/purpose to each of the different movement types; and from watching the videos it does not look to me as if "crouch" in Absolution is synonymous with "sneak/silent" (as it was in BM). What do you guys think?

[abeg]

I like it being more accessible. The neck snap was only seen in the IGN preview, maybe it was modified to create a better scene.

This is where I think social awkwardness would (hopefully) come into play. I feel like, during moments of being in plain sight and trying to go unnoticed (whether in disguise or not), walking around crouched should slowly build up suspicion, cos in real life it would be a weird fucking thing to do and make people around you very uncomfortable.

If there's a place with alot of security of some sort I think it would be a great addition. The guards should definetly take notice and ask what you are doing and report. So far we haven't seen any situations like that.

Edited by abeg, 17 January 2012 - 02:36 PM.

[Aeseric]

I agree. But I think it would be helpful to re-watch that orphanage running sneak thing. In the hallway, it seems as if the guard did notice 47 and was in the midst of turning around but got his neck broken.

It could be the case, as hand-to-hand would be much faster than a syringe kill. I think the mechanic you mentioned in the same. I only incosistency with the guard turning at the sound of the syringe kill, and the guard not turning at the sound of the neck-snap kill, is simply because of varying animation timings.



EDIT: A great idea to open up a thread for solely discussing movement mechanics. I wish there was a thread to discuss the sandbox linearity of the game.

So far, IO have debunked most negative myths about this game and done an excellent job cooling down the heat. I look forward to H:A with more enthusiasm than any other game.

The Sandbox/linearity is the only thing that has not been confirmed via Nick, Footage, Interview, or anything of the sort. IMO, this is aspect of the game that deserves the most attention.

Edited by Asterix, 17 January 2012 - 02:39 PM.

[Cold Shadow]

^Actually, Tore confirmed many times that there are many levels or missions that you can play them like in the past games, but ofcourse, with the new and improved AI (more like overhauled). But yes, we need more info on this.
Keep in mind though, that this won't be revealed until you actually play the game.

[Aeseric]

Keep in mind though, that this won't be revealed until you actually play the game.

Yes. As a personal desire, (this is purely an art decision) , I hope the game features lots of S&M parties and very harrowing and risque topics as seen in Contracts. Tore's team executed it flawlessly last time and this game will only add to the epicness.


1)An S&M party held by a sadist who killed and dismembered an innocent woman and worshiped her in some weird shrine. All taking place in an abattoir with dead horses littering the walls. This level screams 'HITMAN'

2) Sneaking into a desolate mansion where a human hunting party is going on, to assassinate a man as he sleeps. COLD.

3) A innocent woman being slapped and spit on by her boyfriend for no apparent reason or story relevance. DARK AND HARROWING.


I'm sorry for rambling on.. but I really enjoy the nostalgia

Edited by Asterix, 17 January 2012 - 02:54 PM.

[abeg]

I agree. But I think it would be helpful to re-watch that orphanage running sneak thing. In the hallway, it seems as if the guard did notice 47 and was in the midst of turning around but got his neck broken.

To make sure, we are talking about this clip right? 02:26:

The Sandbox/linearity is the only thing that has not been confirmed via Nick

It hasn't been confirmed much by Nick about it, but IGN stated that certain stages don't have big sandbox stages some folks want from hitman, and that's from their preview.

Edited by abeg, 17 January 2012 - 02:55 PM.

[Aeseric]

It hasn't been confirmed much by Nick about it, but IGN stated that certain stages don't have big sandbox stages some folks want from hitman.

Yes, we're talking about that. It's very ambiguous... it looks as if the guy is about to turn around... though it is dark and very subtle.

IGN is sometimes knowledgeable on their videos... other times they are just reading half-assed lines.

Let's hope they're wrong. I understand some missions have to be scripted for story purposes. But the main meat of the game should be formed of levels like 'Traditions of the Trade' and 'Curtains Down' and such.
While keeping levels akin to 'Requiem' and 'Death of a Showman' and 'Hunter and Hunted' and 'Lee Hong Assassination' to a minimum.

Edited by Asterix, 17 January 2012 - 03:04 PM.

[Nitro]

To make sure, we are talking about this clip right? 02:26:

That's what I'm talking about, yes. Contrast with 1:17 from same video - looks inconsistent to me how one guy seems to hear you coming and the other doesn't.

It hasn't been confirmed much by Nick about it, but IGN stated that certain stages don't have big sandbox stages some folks want from hitman, and that's from their preview.

In another thread, Mr. ME asked "are there free roam levels?" and Daniel@IO said, "yes." I would still love to see just a snippet of one in action for absolute and conclusive proof, but that question and answer is certainly very reassuring.

Edited by Nitro, 17 January 2012 - 03:11 PM.

[Aeseric]

In another thread], Mr. ME asked "are there free roam levels?" and Daniel@IO said, "yes." I would still love to see just a snippet of one in action for absolute and conclusive proof, but that question and answer is certainly very reassuring.
[/quote]

Very reassuring indeed. Thanks for clearing the fog on that. I apologize for deviating off-topic but I am at rest having heard of that conversation.

[sgg847]

Who is say that 47 was spotted by the guy who turns to him?

[Pew Pew]

Some great points Nitro. As for the footage in the scene were the guard turns on 47 you could notice a flash or two( a visual cue maybe)in the screen which could indicate that the guard heard 47 aproaching,while in the other clip were 47 breaks the guards neck the flash is apparently abscent and the guard didnt turn on 47,from what i can tell the guard either heard something 47 stepped on,or 47 was moving faster so the guard heard his movement,or it could simply be that the guard didnt have the time to react to 47s attack.

[Best for Hire]

The sneaking speed isn't all that bad, but I would have prefered a speed similar to Blood Money sneaking. There's no doubt the crouching speed has increased from Silent Assassin, Contracts and Blood Money. In other games it wasn't that when you push less on the thumbstick he goes slower, he just plants his feet softer than before which would take time to do, therefore decreasing speed. Sneaking fast like whats shown in the preview would mean he wouldn't be carefully placing his feet, possibly making loud noises. But mind you all this was played on easy mode, so in normal or harder difficulties it might catch the attention of the guards.
And yes, I do take into account that some people can run without making a sound, but wouldn't that make the game too easy? He's an Assassin, not a Ninja.

Edited by Best for Hire, 17 January 2012 - 05:36 PM.

[Cold Shadow]

^You don't have to be a ninja to make less noise than everyone else btw.

[The Main Event]

He'd have to be judging by the speed we saw in the clip, but I wouldn't be too worried about it. Crouching speed is something that could easily be modified before the actual release of the game and it did kind of look like the guard was about to turn around.

[Neversleep]

@asterix
I would not be surprised if IO is keeping the sandbox levels as their last big reveal. This would be news for the people who are just hearing about hitman now and showing off the huge amount of different takes on one mission

more on topic

I read somewhere in a preview that the reviewer was glad to notice the quality in the difference of sound his footsteps made in the game. I believe he made the comparison between the soundless shuffle on a carpeted floor and the louder steps when walking on wooden floor. I believe that if the designers made the sound obvious enough to the player himself it probably serves a function.(as in avoid being loud when sneaking).
I'm having troubles locating the article at the moment but will provide it when i find it!

[Nitro]

@asterix
I would not be surprised if IO is keeping the sandbox levels as their last big reveal. This would be news for the people who are just hearing about hitman now and showing off the huge amount of different takes on one mission

more on topic

I read somewhere in a preview that the reviewer was glad to notice the quality in the difference of sound his footsteps made in the game. I believe he made the comparison between the soundless shuffle on a carpeted floor and the louder steps when walking on wooden floor. I believe that if the designers made the sound obvious enough to the player himself it probably serves a function.(as in avoid being loud when sneaking).
I'm having troubles locating the article at the moment but will provide it when i find it!

Good points, both. I'm guessing that the next media waves/reveals will be 1) closer look at disguise gameplay and AI suspicion surrounding disguises (maybe more about the various alert states, too, which I would love to hear; and 2) open-ended sandbox levels.

And that would be a nice touch, if you have to be more conscious about moving slower behind enemies when walking on loud surfaces vs. quiet ones. I just re-watched those two clips discussed above to see if that explains the difference in guard reaction, but it looks to me like in both cases he's walking on tile floor. It's a bit hard to tell in the neck-snap clip though.

[sgg847]

I see everyone forgot about the same feature in HC47 with ability of 47 to run in sneak mode and not to be detected.

[Cold Shadow]

^I believe it was more like a glitch than an actual feature TBH. but anyway, faster sneaking is not impossible. It can be done and with 47's skills, he should pull it off easily.

As for that guard in the orphanage video. I also think that he would heard 47 when he ran up to him to subdue him because he was about to turn. But anyway, I still hope for the best. I trust IO with this one.

[abeg]

I still can't see him turn or twist his head, must be too dark for my screen. What I like about this system though is that you can act much quicker, alittle bit too quick maybe. But it's ok. Just imagen beldingford manor with Glacier 2. Quickly move behind the bushes, snap a guys neck, climb over walls, crouch along the walls. Awsome.

Edited by abeg, 20 January 2012 - 04:18 AM.

[Expert]

alittle bit too quick maybe.

"It will be never enough fast" in action phase.

Edited by Expert, 20 January 2012 - 05:00 AM.