184 replies to this topic

[Nitro]

Everything he says has been said already, including by other journalists, he's just more emphatic about it. And he's not THAT big a fan of past Hitman games - dude thinks there used to be a minimap in the corner. I've seen other journalists report on Absolution who had a much better grasp of the previous games.

But what it all boils down to is one question: what will the level design in Absolution be like? All the other gameplay elements are either the same as previous Hitman games or merely additional options in your toolbox which can be used as the player sees fit. Cover-based shooting/refinements to the gunplay/less broken action generally/instinct/cover-based sneaking mechanics? Use 'em if you want, no one's forcing you to; this has been confirmed a billion times over. You can rely entirely on disguises and play the levels exactly like you would past Hitman games, without using any of the new gameplay elements, if that's what you want to do. The only viable concern anyone can have at this point is over the level design.

Let's break this down as objectively as possible.

Reasons for the concern: 1) what we've seen so far are two levels (or rather, portions-of-levels) which seem primarily linear in that you're mostly trying to go from start to finish in a certain order, as opposed to having objectives scattered around a stage which can be approached in whatever order and direction you please; 2) no satellite map, which to some implies less complex stages; 3) checkpoints.

These are fair reasons for concern, and this is why it is a concern I have as well. But there are also counterpoints to these concerns: 1) We've only seen *parts* of two missions, not even a single mission in full yet, and we know that the layout of RFYL has been changed since the demo specifically for the purpose of adding more options; 2) re: map and checkpoints, yes it sounds concerning on paper but is it possible for creative level design to still have the kinds of stages we would want most from a Hitman game (Anathema, House of Cards, Lee Hong, TOTT, Vintage Year, B Manor) as examples even while using a checkpoint system and without a satellite map? Of course it can be done. 3) Other statements/facts all point to missions that will be very different in scope/style from the two we have seen. For instance, IO has said time and time again that there will be a mix of more structured, story-driven levels and more open-ended assassination missions - we've seen 2 examples of the former. Why not show the latter yet? Early in development, showing off of new mechanics at this point in the marketing with the showing off of new level design coming later. This makes sense; learn what you CAN do then learn WHERE you can do it. Also, we know there will be a crowd system which has only been momentarily teased. There's others but I'm gonna go have a beer now.

[sgg847]

@Agent Shadow
Are you David Houghton? If you are, then you should understand that Hitman Blood Money is not a standard.

[Quinn]

what is this? no really? speculation? he reviewed the demo and gave you his verdict, that is called speculation these days?

Does this : "So we find our slap-headed death-dispenser infiltrating said dumping ground for the de-parented, not to meticulously set up an elaborate series of quietly lethal events as usual, but to safely navigate a linear route full of hostiles on the way to an objective."

"Sandwiching all of these elements into a resolutely linear A-to-B structure felt very much like dropping Ryu into a side-scrolling Final Fight-style brawler and calling it Street Fighter V"

"Because as slick and beautiful as it was, yesterday's demo was basically Splinter Cell Conviction: Bald Edition. "

"Agent 47 was no longer playing the long-game, quietly exploring a sandbox in order to discover deliciously contrived avenues through which to set up ‘accidents’, or studying and manipulating the behaviour of the area’s cast of players. Instead, he was sneaking along a largely linear, occasionally branching path, partaking in the same basic hide/wait/kill/move/repeat loop inherent to stealth games since Manhunt. "

sounds like he is still speculating? I hope you were joking my friend.

I already read the article. Why are you using 90% of your post to quote it? You're not proving anything to me by doing so.

Ultimately, the article doesn't change anything. Anyone who was excited about Absolution before will continue to be excited about it, and anyone who is fearful will just become even more fearful. The writer may be a long time Hitman fan, but so are most on this forum. Just because he has the platform of writing for a website, it does not make his opinion any more valid, relevant or true than anybody else who posts on these boards. Don't blow things out of proportion.

[Expert]

"Too demanding"? So, um, that would assume that the fans are "demanding too much", right? What is it that is being asked for that would be "too much", and why?

Well... As you've probably not noticed, there is not one uniform type of fan. For example, there are those who liked the new changes and those who hated them.

To give you an idea of ​​the desiderata of fans, just have a look at Hitman: Wishlist.

But I see that even on this forum some have hope for things that will probably not be in Absolution. Hence the reason for my "warning".

[Agent_88]

I already read the article. Why are you using 90% of your post to quote it? You're not proving anything to me by doing so.

Ultimately, the article doesn't change anything. Anyone who was excited about Absolution before will continue to be excited about it, and anyone who is fearful will just become even more fearful. The writer may be a long time Hitman fan, but so are most on this forum. Just because he has the platform of writing for a website, it does not make his opinion any more valid, relevant or true than anybody else who posts on these boards. Don't blow things out of proportion.

How old are you?

So that is your answer? ...

After all this (reading previous responds too), seems like this forum is filled with causal gamers (90% kids abusing the reps system for any person that disagrees with them)pretending to be loyal fans or some brainwashed people, we heard it from various sites that this game is so much similar to splinter cell conviction and batman and doesn't feel like a hitman game, and they still shut their ears and eyes wth.

If you want to respond, just show me one review of the demo or the run for your life vid where some reviewer/site owner/journalist ...etc that says that this game is pure stealth like the old days with good ol big exploration maps (I don't want devs and PR managers quotes obviously, every "older fan" knows dev's tricks, they did it with conviction too).

Edited by Agent_88, 23 January 2012 - 06:36 PM.

[Nitro]

How old are you?

So that is your answer? ...

After all this (reading previous responds too), seems like this forum is filled with causal gamers (90% kids abusing the reps system for any person that disagrees with them)pretending to be loyal fans or some brainwashed people, we heard it from various sites that this game is so much similar to splinter cell conviction and batman and doesn't feel like a hitman game, and they still shut their ears and eyes wth.

If you want to respond, just show me one review of the demo or the run for your life vid where some reviewer/site owner/journalist ...etc that says that this game is pure stealth like the old days with good ol big exploration maps (I don't want devs and PR managers quotes obviously, every "older fan" knows devs tricks, they did it with conviction too).

Dude, what was new about this preview? Nothing. There's a thing called overreacting and you're fucking perfect at it.

[Quinn]

How old are you?

26.

So that is your answer? ...

Yes.

After all this (reading previous responds too), seems like this forum is filled with causal gamers (90% kids abusing the reps system for any person that disagrees with them)pretending to be loyal fans or some brainwashed people, we heard it from various sites that this game is so much similar to splinter cell conviction and batman and doesn't feel like a hitman game, and they still shut their ears and eyes wth.

Which category do I fit into? Please tell me, as I love to be put into categories.

Seriously though, this is often the type of crazy talk that the self titled 'true hardcore' fans throw around on forums. You talk if you are the only one who is not deluded and that you are a white knight or protector of the Hitman series on behalf of the 'original' fans. Completely untrue and uncalled for.

If you want to respond, just show me one review of the demo or the run for your life vid where some reviewer/site owner/journalist ...etc that says that this game is pure stealth like the old days with good ol big exploration maps (I don't want devs and PR managers quotes obviously, every "older fan" knows dev's tricks, they did it with conviction too).

Why does it matter what a journalist says compared to anyone else? Why will that and that alone be the thing to convince you otherwise? I like how you call everyone brainwashed for taking in all kinds of information, yet you are completely reluctant to even use your own eyes to make up your own mind. It seems as though you need someone in a position of feigned authority (journalist, writer, etc) to tell you how to feel about the game. Are you that much of a sheep that you require that to gain an opinion? Please just grow up and stop antagonizing other fans who disagree with you.

[Habit]

How old are you?

What does that matter?

After all this (reading previous responds too), seems like this forum is filled with causal gamers (90% kids abusing the reps system for any person that disagrees with them)pretending to be loyal fans or some brainwashed people, we heard it from various sites that this game is so much similar to splinter cell conviction and batman and doesn't feel like a hitman game, and they still shut their ears and eyes wth.

Actually I see the forum as a bunch of Hitman Fans, some want blood money 2.0 and other's just want a good game expereince. There are few that are Hitman fans that even though they don't neccessarily agree with every new feature or change (I.E. no bateson is a horrible thing but you might like the idea of newer features to classic game), but will still give the game a chance before they hold judgement. then there is the conspiracy theorists. those who no matter how many times you say something or where the source of the info comes from they will find a way to turn toward their agenda. which is always a neagative one about how we are all getting screwed and we're brainwashed if we belive anything IO says.

If you want to respond, just show me one review of the demo or the run for your life vid where some reviewer/site owner/journalist ...etc that says that this game is pure stealth like the old days with good ol big exploration maps (I don't want devs and PR managers quotes obviously, every "older fan" knows devs tricks, they did it with conviction too).

Show me one bit of evidence that the "old days" were pure stealth too. I personally play hitman games with the intention of being a ghost no one knows i'm there, but if you think those games were made to be pure stealth your wrong. Absolution is no different. No one can show you any proof that it will be stealth only because no one has said that, in fact the devs have said specifically that the game is enginerred with both possible ways to play in mind. THIS IS AN UPGRADE! the fact that me, and someone else can play the exact same game and have the exact opposite expereince is awesome. it's like two games in one.

Honestly I know that nothing I say is going to change your mind because yours is already made up. If you want a game that's like the "old Days" eeeerrrghgh 2006, then play those games, I for one am looking forward to a new installment to my favorite series of game.

[Expert]

What does that matter?

An attempt to approach for a romantic encounter?

[Habit]

An attempt to approach for a romantic encounter?

Ha!

[Agent Shadow]

@Agent Shadow
Are you David Houghton? If you are, then you should understand that Hitman Blood Money is not a standard.

No, I am not. Hence the use of the pronoun "He", and not "I" in my posts.

No, I don't think that "Blood Money is the standard". The goal is not to get them to make a "Blood Money 2". My concerns are that one of my most cherished series is potentially in danger of being relegated to obscurity by the misguided intentions of IO and Square Enix, when they have the potential to take in a direction that causes it to stand out, not just blend in. Is that so difficult to understand?

Edited by Agent Shadow, 23 January 2012 - 07:08 PM.

[Quinn]

No, I am not. Hence the use of the pronoun "He", and not "I" in my posts.

No, I don't think that "Blood Money is the standard". The goal is not to get them to make a "Blood Money 2". My concerns are that one of my most cherished series is potentially in danger of being relegated to obscurity by the misguided intentions of IO and Square Enix, when they have the potential to take in a direction that causes it to stand out, not just blend in. Is that so difficult to understand?

No, it isn't. Your concerns are duly noted.

[Agent Shadow]

Well... As you've probably not noticed, there is not one uniform type of fan. For example, there are those who liked the new changes and those who hated them.

To give you an idea of ​​the desiderata of fans, just have a look at Hitman: Wishlist.

But I see that even on this forum some have hope for things that will probably not be in Absolution. Hence the reason for my "warning".

This thread is not a wishlist, nor should it be confused with that thread.

You stated the phrase "too demanding" in response to the OP. What is it in this thread, or the mentioned article that I posted that you consider to be "too demanding"?

Edited by Agent Shadow, 23 January 2012 - 07:45 PM.

[Habit]

No, I am not. Hence the use of the pronoun "He", and not "I" in my posts.

No, I don't think that "Blood Money is the standard". The goal is not to get them to make a "Blood Money 2". My concerns are that one of my most cherished series is potentially in danger of being relegated to obscurity by the misguided intentions of IO and Square Enix, when they have the potential to take in a direction that causes it to stand out, not just blend in. Is that so difficult to understand?

How is it being relegated to obscurity? Cause of two levels that showcase the new features added to a game to help bring it OUT or obscurity. The game has had news about it in years and know its back. What is making it obscure?

[sgg847]

No, I am not. Hence the use of the pronoun "He", and not "I" in my posts.
No, I don't think that "Blood Money is the standard". The goal is not to get them to make a "Blood Money 2". My concerns are that one of my most cherished series is potentially in danger of being relegated to obscurity by the misguided intentions of IO and Square Enix, when they have the potential to take in a direction that causes it to stand out, not just blend in. Is that so difficult to understand?

It's you. If it is your most cherished series then you have to see that IOI has relegated to obscurity this series since 2004 and they continue to relegate it when listen to fans who lives between 2002 and 2006 years. Hence stupid decision to disable Instinct and reduce amount of it for Buridan's asses who can't choose what to do during gameplay. The game does need in fresh blood long ago and today the time has come. (But decision with instinct on purist shit is crap anyway)

[Agent Shadow]

How is it being relegated to obscurity? Cause of two levels that showcase the new features added to a game to help bring it OUT or obscurity. The game has had news about it in years and know its back. What is making it obscure?

I don't think you understood what I meant. By being "relegated to obscurity", I mean that, in the attempt to make the game more relevant to today, IO and SE are in danger of making it irrelevant by possibly losing some of the things that made the series special in its own right. Mind you, I'm all for doing things better, and I'm sure all of us here can think of a laundry list of ways that the older games could have been improved. I don't think they were perfect, mind you, but they signified a start in a good direction. They were unique. At this point, there is barely anything in the market that vaguely resembles the gameplay of the Hitman series. People keep throwing out the whole "Hitman: Conviction" accusation, because they see some the same red herrings that they saw before. Splinter Cell was a very unique series, and each installment was highly successful. After the quick "thrills" of Conviction, which came and went, people barely even speak of it anymore. People are worried that this is what is happening to Hitman.

[Habit]

I don't think you understood what I meant. By being "relegated to obscurity", I mean that, in the attempt to make the game more relevant to today, IO and SE are in danger of making it irrelevant by possibly losing some of the things that made the series special in its own right. Mind you, I'm all for doing things better, and I'm sure all of us here can think of a laundry list of ways that the older games could have been improved. I don't think they were perfect, mind you, but they signified a start in a good direction. They were unique. At this point, there is barely anything in the market that vaguely resembles the gameplay of the Hitman series. People keep throwing out the whole "Hitman: Conviction" accusation, because they see some the same red herrings that they saw before. Splinter Cell was a very unique series, and each installment was highly successful. After the quick "thrills" of Conviction, which came and went, people barely even speak of it anymore. People are worried that this is what is happening to Hitman.

What's being taken AWAY from hitman. Everything that was in the old games will be in absolution. What other game has made disguises a large part of the game. That's unique to hitman ans its still there. And the only comparison to conviction is that 47 cab now crouch and take cover. Do you really want another hitman game where 47 stands around al stiff as shit? Why is it a bad thing that 47 can move like a normal person?

[Agent Shadow]

It's you. If it is your most cherished series then you have to see that IOI has relegated to obscurity this series since 2004 and they continue to relegate it when listen to fans who lives between 2002 and 2006 years. Hence stupid decision to disable Instinct and reduce amount of it for Buridan's asses who can't choose what to do during gameplay. The game does need in fresh blood long ago and today the time has come. (But decision with instinct on purist shit is crap anyway)

Look, I recognize that English is not your first language, so please bear with me when I say that I don't understand what you are saying in your first couple of sentences. Perhaps you'd care to elaborate on that?

Regarding the "instincts" feature, I think that the design philosophy is spot on. However, I'm honestly surprised by how badly it was executed. Its essentially heat/x-Ray vision combined with the ability to see the future (determine which direction the AI is going to take). Its ridiculous. There are much better ways to do this without violating the lore or reducing the level of difficulty to nil. I agree that an instincts feature is needed, but I don't agree with the implementation.

[Agent Shadow]

What's being taken AWAY from hitman. Everything that was in the old games will be in absolution. What other game has made disguises a large part of the game. That's unique to hitman ans its still there. And the only comparison to conviction is that 47 cab now crouch and take cover. Do you really want another hitman game where 47 stands around al stiff as shit? Why is it a bad thing that 47 can move like a normal person?

As I said before, I don't think you understand what I'm saying, because for whatever reason, you are interpreting it as me complaining about the improvements in 47's movements. Where in the world did that even come from?

Anyways, people are not screaming Hitman: Conviction because you can now "crouch and take cover". Is that all you've gotten out of the concerns that people have been voicing?

[Habit]

As I said before, I don't think you understand what I'm saying, because for whatever reason, you are interpreting it as me complaining about the improvements in 47's movements. Where in the world did that even come from?

Anyways, people are not screaming Hitman: Conviction because you can now "crouch and take cover". Is that all you've gotten out of the concerns that people have been voicing?

Okay in clear language explain. Cause first you said it would be obscure but didn't say why then said the reason why is because its compared to conviction but don't say how. So clarify what you mean please.