118 replies to this topic

[Vindex]

sgg 1 - cold shadow 0

[Dev J Chand]

sgg847 made surprisingly good points here. I didn't know that he could actually get into a discussion this well.
Cold Shadow, I get your point. The AI in Hitman 2:Silent Assassin wasn't good, neither was the AI in Blood Money. But, the example you gave here( a guard not seeing 47 in near darkness, and a guard staring at something) aren't right ones. Obviously, a guard could easily miss 47 in the darkness. A guard staring at something, because he wants to, is not a logical flaw. It's just because the guard is taking a break from his patrol. The most obvious reason could be that he is tired, and wants to patrol later.
Anyway, Cold Shadow, you should have got better points.
Best of luck! Try discussing it better next time!!

[Cold Shadow]

Obviously some people here are blind. I know that Graveyard shift is a dark mission, I GET THAT, however the same thing happens in Anathema and I couldn't find a video of it. I stated it over and over again that it's the only video I found and that it does happen in other missions, but I guess some people just love to troll on my behalf even if it means ignoring the straight up obvious and bending my posts just to justify their points.

BTW for christ's sake, 47 was in the guards face and it wasn't pitch black. If there was a distance between 47 and the guard and the guard missed him it would be acceptable, but it isn't pitch black darkness and 47 was way too close for the guard not to notice.

Oh and the part where I said a guards staring at nothing. Well, that's not the worst case. The thing about it, is when that happens, the guard will not see 47 and his line of sight/ vision is reduced compared to a normal guard. That was my point about that. Sometimes the guard won't even see 47. It may sound normal, but the way it plays out is not.

And then another ignored part of my argument. In Anathema (can happen in other missions too), you can make any standing guard, guard the wall instead of his usual staring place and he will stay like that without ever facing back to where he's suppose to face. But I guess, no one mentions this. Heck, I know I am right about these AI claims so why bother.

Edited by Cold Shadow, 07 February 2012 - 08:53 AM.

[Shobhit7]

Hello mr genius/ troll or what ever you are

First of all, HOW could I have looked stupid if I backed up my claims with VIDEO PROOF?
I wonder who's the idiot now.

I never complained about the AI. All I said was that I hope Absolution has good AI since all the other games failed at it and there's no better AI in either of the games since they're all dump. The point wasn't to complain, but to compare SA with BM's AI and their behaviour to conclude that both games have mentally challenged AI. So I cannot seriously see how you could have understood otherwise.

Second, the AI in H2 will still act dumb even if you're not going for suit only. I never implied the suit only argument here. The suit only part was brought up only to say HOW I FOUND OUT THE EXPLOITS and not to make it part of the argument.

And third, if you have nothing of importance to contribute or you feel like licking someone's back side to justify your hate for someone else, I suggest you just GTFO kid.

Dude..you have some serious temper issues. Why so serious? You took my post as a personal attack. Rule # 1 of Online debates...keep your emotions out of it. You lost it with Sgg and you lost it with me. So chill out.
You were proven wrong on an objective level by Sgg.....no one is claiming that the AI in these games is great (I re-iterate....they are mentally challenged)but on a solely argumentative level Sgg violated your points...up the ass.
Complaining about the AI in a game as outdated as Silent Assassin is as redundant as driving a Ford Model T in 2012 and then bitching about the mileage.

Oh and Watson is correct. This is not a Sgg troll account. Honestly why do people hate that guy...to the point of BLINDLY voting him down and rooting for the other guy regardless of the issue being discussed.

P.S

Nothing personal Cold Shadow.....but I call a spade a spade..you got owned bro. Admit it. End this argument and lets move on.

P.P.S

Guard Positioning IS level designing...wow..another nosebleed.

Edited by Shobhit7, 08 February 2012 - 03:03 AM.

[Cold Shadow]

Again, you are failing to understand the point of my argument. It wasn't exactly about complaining. Complaining was never part of the argument. COMPARING was the subject and NOT complaining. Sgg was basically saying that the H2 AI is better than BM and I respectfully disagreed and showed evidence as to why H2's AI also sucked. So I cannot see how it has taken this sudden turn of sgg vs me. So this owning babyish thing doesn't have a place here simply because some people have misunderstood me. How can someone own the other when they're talking about the same thing and when the other that supposedly got owned had evidence to support his claims? It doesn't add up. But I guess, the thing here is that some people have misunderstood my point. That's all.

And stop the down vote, it's childish and makes the individual look like a troll.

Oh and guard positioning is part of the level design, I didn't disagree ENTIRELY. The thing with it is that it was badly placed in H2 and it effected the guards since they already had bugged eyesight in H2 and placing them badly just made it seem worse. That was my point.

Oh and I never lost it with sgg. Seriously, if that was how I sounded (or whatever), then I apologize.

Edited by Cold Shadow, 08 February 2012 - 04:53 AM.

[Mr. ME]

Contracts had the best AI, why do many people ignore Contracts?

The AI there had a mix between the paranoid AI of SA and the careless AI of BM, the did not shoot you as soon as you got 2 meters away from them, but you certainly cannot run infront of them...

[Shobhit7]

@Cold Shadow

Au contraire bro...I actually happen to agree with you regarding the AI issues. Even a comparison (done to evaluate the strength and weaknesses between two things in order to reveal the critical flaws in one or the other) will snowball into complaining regardless of your initial intentions. Again...It'd be like comparing a Model-T to a Ford Escape.

The "ownage" part comes in the later argument between you and Sgg...and in this regard I have to say that Sgg had a counter to all your points regardless of your video "proof". Sgg wins because he doesn't debate the retardedness of the AI but specifically the points you mention...he contests the points you made, provides viable counterpoints all the while maintaining that the SA AI is definitely not up to the mark..the reason that you find it so is due to the inherent design of the game (A Hardcore stealth game)

So there.

Its cool bro...*handshake*

@Mr. ME

Contracts AI was pretty good...identical to BM AI IMO (Apart from some tweaks). Not perfect but better than the mooks in H1 and SA.

[Mr. ME]

@Mr. ME

Contracts AI was pretty good...identical to BM AI IMO (Apart from some tweaks). Not perfect but better than the mooks in H1 and SA.

Those tweaks are realistic AI that shoot you if you start nosing aroung them(The ones that you dress up like them) , in bloodmoney all they did is stand there and give you the stop sign, you can also run around them and they will still do nothing.

[DeadlyShadow47]

Guys just end this nonsense please

[Eraser]

The AI in BM is definitely better than SA. Can't cosign there not being a very noticeable difference at all.

The borg collective npc attacks in the first 2 games compared to BM alone is the give away. You could kill and run to safe spots and sometimes still get gung up on like they had telepathy. Extremely annoying in Hidden Valley and Terminal Hospitality, but I'm pretty sure the levels broke down all the same once you were exposed by a guard and didn't change or whatever. Instant mission wide 47 manhunt

Let's not forget just being in restricted areas improperly dressed gets you shot in those games.

BM did a pretty good job of letting you get out of exposal situations by containing it some, and reasonably warning you out of places you weren't supposed to be regularly.

Also better with letting your disguise go through a sensible level of suspicion before alert. Better paced tension there.

I actually got called on my sneaking by a nurse in Flatline. That blew me away, sneaking arbitrarily never raised suspicion in the first games. Another improvement.

Only real regression was running not affecting guard suspicion in BM, but I don't think that was present in Contracts either.

Anyway, if you played all four games like a maniac you can tell BM had the best AI. Throwing shit took npc exploits to a whole new level though lol. Nothing funnier than making a guard trail a briefcase down a hall then doing whatever I want for access to his area after.

[Vindex]

The AI in BM is definitely better than SA. Can't cosign there not being a very noticeable difference at all.

It is better just for what concerns NPCs behaviour, not in general. It turned out to be completely exploitable for the 180° static turns of NPCs, guards not being able to shoot you in a proper way, not being able to open fire at all if there isn't at least a yard between you and the enemy(ies), the guards' lacking of encircling abilities (you could basically move behind a wall's corner and waiting for them like a shooting gallery) etcetera.

Edited by Vindex, 08 February 2012 - 09:07 AM.

[hityutz]

By this I mean, will the new Hitman game make the targets aware that they have somebody after them, and inevitably have it so there's a confrontation right before every kill? When this happened in Assassin's Creed II, I was thoroughly disappointed at the fact that every kill I performed seemed to be incredibly linear. I wanted to silently kill and walk out, but I never got that. Anybody have any idea if this will be the case?

they already have. read the dev interviews and faqs where they say there will be qte based boss fights and checkpoint saves before you encounter your target/boss.

[Shobhit7]

A good estimate of how Hitman's AI might behave would be to check out Deus EX's or Splinter Cell Conviction's AI. Both the games have an aggro-stealth/Action focus which requires dynamic AI in terms of stealth and full on engagement. The AI is deep enough in the games to go from a relax mode (Patrolling and chilling as usual in a stealth game) to alert mode (searching for intruder) and down to an action mode where they can provide an enjoyable action gameplay loop.
Obviously Absolution's AI will have to be more nuanced and deeper as it has to accomodate the social stealth playstyle and react to the player in a far more realistic and believable fashion.

[Eraser]

It is better just for what concerns NPCs behaviour, not in general. It turned out to be completely exploitable for the 180° static turns of NPCs, guards not being able to shoot you in a proper way, not being able to open fire at all if there isn't at least a yard between you and the enemy(ies), the guards' lacking of encircling abilities (you could basically move behind a wall's corner and waiting for them like a shooting gallery) etcetera.

Those issues were not exclusive to BM tho. Same thing was present in SA, Contracts, and the NPCs mindless assault tactics has been there since the series' inception.

The only real knock on BM is again, the regression in non suspicion for running, but that isn't exclusive to BM either since it was also removed in Contracts. In overview, you can say the hive minding was somewhat toned down and there was now a fair warning system in BM. Ironically, with the aforementioned exploit issues of the previous games, those 2 very good modifications to the AI may have led to the difficulty appearing too accommodating to us observant players.

Edited by Eraser, 08 February 2012 - 10:59 PM.

[Class1clone]

Contracts had the best AI, why do many people ignore Contracts?

The AI there had a mix between the paranoid AI of SA and the careless AI of BM, the did not shoot you as soon as you got 2 meters away from them, but you certainly cannot run infront of them...

i am not the only one i see

[PostalDude]

Hmmm let me think...Oh yeah (Ass)assin's creed never did't make any mistake! I think that AC and Hitman are both good games.

[Mr. ME]

Hmmm let me think...Oh yeah (Ass)assin's creed never did't make any mistake! I think that AC and Hitman are both good games.

You are super cereal.

[N1ck]

shit... they would have to re design the whole scoring system right? i mean... the whole system is based on how stealth and low key you are during assassinations. anyway, can't fucking WAIT for absolution.. i am about to finish a tour in afghanistan and am looking forward to this!!!!!

[Lizard Buzzard]

Its cool bro...*handshake*

[Best for Hire]

Contracts had the best AI, why do many people ignore Contracts?

The AI there had a mix between the paranoid AI of SA and the careless AI of BM, the did not shoot you as soon as you got 2 meters away from them, but you certainly cannot run infront of them...

I know right? That's why Contracts is my second favorite in the series.

Also, on the topic of Assassin's Creed, I hope the guards will warn you when they see you and if you resist arrest they should then try to take you down in a similar manner to the way guards in AC act.

Edited by Best for Hire, 17 March 2012 - 06:07 PM.