76 replies to this topic

[tbcdlad]

Think back to when you guys first started playing console games. Maybe you were a small child, maybe you still are.

The first games that I ever played as a child, I didn't finish them because I had no concept that games had endings. I know that may sound weird or even silly but it's true. As I got older, I became more involved in the stories but found that the more games I played, the bosses on the final battles of most of these games were too difficult for me to defeat in order to progress and finish the game.

In hindsight, the bosses were stupid easy (Sonic the hedgehog, bowser from Mario brothers, etc.,) but back then I didn't have the tolerance or attention span to sit at a game for hours on end and finish it. The console was just for an hour of entertainment.

I suspect that most gamers are young folks who don't have the attention span, time, concern or care to see a game through. And I suspect that these young people playing today play only for short term gratification, social reasons and recreation.

As JaRDoS mentioned, the response from forum members is skewed because we tend to have more interest in this particular title than the "typical" gamer. I guess that if these young people grow up to be past the age of 18-21, and still game, they'll probably be more likely to see games through versus when they were children or even teens.

Sadly for me, when I was a child and a teen, the 20% stat rang true (actually a bit high) for the games that ended up finishing.

I agree with you here, I remember that I was like this as a kid too. However, here's what doesn't make any sense to me about this, why would they base this pecentage off of kids, when the devs have clearly stated countless times that this game is for adults, and Absolution is a game that has many adult themes in it, and you know that this game will get a Mature rating. So I don't think it's fair to base this percentage off of kids as they aren't even supposed to be playing this game. This rating should be based off of adults, who will be able to understand and follow a story as dark as this one, and might actually be able to invest lots of time into actually completing everything in the missions, rather than the missions themselves. For me, Fallout 3, and games like that, are a blast to play when you get into them. That's why I like Absolution, it has everything I love about video games, freedom of choice in how you want to play. That's what is cool about it. That's why I'm going to be playing A LOT of Hitman Absolution come November 20th.

[Cold Shadow]

Mrpistollaw actually said something very true if you ask me. I was close to that when I was younger even though when I really liked a game, I would still finish it. But I had many others that I didn't finish. Still, why would these "kids" count? I mean, they aren't suppose to be playing Hitman in the first place because it's clearly a game for mature 18+ people.

Edited by Cold Shadow, 27 June 2012 - 10:38 PM.

[Lewisnic1]

Well either way I have to get to the Final Level, even if it takes me a Year to Complete.

Edited by Lewisnic1, 27 June 2012 - 11:06 PM.

[abeg]

Casuals. Casuals.

[HitPro]

That's really ridiculous and pretty shallow to say just 20% before they dump Hitman in the dust. .I have tried several series, but Hitman left me interested and never bored me providing plenty for my stealth hunger.

Can IO perhaps give a proper explanation to what they exactly mean by "20% of players will see the last level..." ??

- Is it that boring and repetitive?
- What about the story? Doesn't that merit enough to complete the game. I am sure most players would be keen to see the ending rather focusing on game-play alone on their first run.

I can't understand why they come up with such a Stupid Assumption because as I see it now stealth games have already died with only this game still holding the crown.

Am I missing out on a real gem, IO? Is that what you hint?

Edited by HitPro, 28 June 2012 - 12:24 AM.

[MrPistolLaw]

@tbcdlad, good point. I doubt IOI would sample people under 18 for any of the Hitman games. It's my opinion that the statistic that they compiled largely depends on many factors, including the demographic of the people in their sample.

To break down the stat, only 20 people out of every 100 people sampled played whatever Hitman game to the last level. This could have been for any number of reasons. I don't really care for their numbers in the stat, but the take home lesson from their study was that most of the people in their sample wouldn't finish the game. And to generalize, most Hitman title buyers won't finish the game.

I generalized this idea of unfinished games to my own personal stash of all kinds if console games over the years and surprisingly found their finding to be relatively true to my own experience. I then introspected to find out why I didn't finish the games. And there were so many different factors that came into play.

Re kids playing Hitman, unfortunately there are many pre-teens and teens playing today. I'm sure that there are even members on this site who started playing Hitman at an elementary or junior high school age. And you're right, Hitman is one of those games where the "M" or "Pegi 18" rating on the front cover actually stands for something other than just a tacky rating system.

@Cold Shadow, even though the target demographic for games like this are not for people under 18, it's these games that get sold to people under 18 because there are probably more kids in the market to game than adults. Also, stores don't card for sales of M rated games so there's not much enforcement.

[ZombieFrogHorde]

i can honestly say i will see *each level* at least 1895180 times.


im gonna play the shit outta this game. cant wait to get it so i can take the day off of work to celebrate Hitman Day.

[tbcdlad]

One thing I'd like to point out is that in the article, it is stated that this percentage does not just apply to Absolution, but to every other game out there. So this doesn't mean that the director was saying that it is boring or anything like that. I think he is merely trying to state a fact that bothers him. I think this article is really just a way for him to show that he is saddened by the amount of work that has been put into the game by IO and Square Enix, only for 1 out of every 5 people to actually see the amount of work that has been put into the game.

I'm kind of sad too actually, because I can say I've waited for Absolution since the day that I completed Blood Money, and I will play this game completely as well. I'd have to say Hitman is looking really good now too,better than ever actually. The graphics, the gameplay, everything about it looks great and improved substantially.Honestly, I've never understood percentages, and this percentage is no different, I don't think you can truly know what people are going to do with a game based off of a silly number like this one. So I think Tore Blystad might be surprised when the game releases and find that there will be a lot more people that complete the game than he expects there to be. It seems like this number a little too low, and percentages aren't always accurate, but it's still sort of sad to see that there is the chance that some people might not finish a game as great as this one.

[ThaCrip]

even though the target demographic for games like this are not for people under 18, it's these games that get sold to people under 18 because there are probably more kids in the market to game than adults. Also, stores don't card for sales of M rated games so there's not much enforcement.

are you saying that there are more gamers in the 17 or younger category than 18+?

if so, i am pretty sure that's not true. it might have been at one time but nowadays i am sure with the pure volume of people playing games there is definitely more gamers in the 18+ bracket than the 17 or younger bracket as ill bet the gamers in their 20's alone probably beat the 17 or younger gamers (give or take) and if you add in the 30's to (along with the 20's) that surely tops the 17 or younger ones especially considering those in their 30's pretty much grew up with video games.

because a lot of the people who grow up with video games in the earlier days (say Nintendo of the late 1980's and newer (which is pretty much my generation give or take (probably my age-ish or older though as to much younger than me you would not really be able to remember the Nintendo days which you might as well say was the beginning)) are in their 30's now basically, maybe even 40's? (like if you figure say a 20 year old around 1985-1990 area they would be in their 40's now).

p.s. but i guess, at least for me, when i think of 'gamers' you tend to think 20's and younger where most of the core audiences are but i am probably wrong as nowadays i would think it's probably 30's and younger (possibly into the 40's somewhat). but i guess maybe it 'seems' 20's and younger because for the most part it seems like on forums and such that they are the most vocal from what i can tell.

[Cold Shadow]

@MrPistloLaw, unfortunately you are correct there.

Edited by Cold Shadow, 28 June 2012 - 09:00 PM.

[JaRDoS]

I have been pondering where they got the 20% figure from, and I'm inclined to believe someone's done a study which measured:

Number of Copies Where Player Has Unlocked the Finished Game Achievement/Number of Copies Sold

This would be problematic for a number of reasons:

1. It wouldn't factor the difference between the $90 game you pre-order the special edition of vs the $10 indy game your friend buys you as a prank
2. It wouldn't factor situations where a game is given away as a freebie or as part of a special pack
3. It wouldn't factor in big hype, bad response games (I like any excuse to kick Duke Nukem Forever while it's down)
4. It wouldn't factor in games that are relatively easy to finish (Hitman, Portal 2, Splinter Cell: Conviction), games that take a lot of ours to finish (anything from Bioware, Civilisation games, etc) and games that are down right hard to finish (previous Splinter Cell titles, any number of indy games with 80s difficulty curves, etc)

Honestly I think most people will see the final stage of Absolution, the Hitman series is one where you traditionally haven't been challenged to find a way to finish - its to find the best way to finish. So maybe only 20% of players will get Silent Assassin on all levels.

[MrPistolLaw]

@thacrip, I come from a generation where the Apple 2e and Nintendo 8 bit system were in and the Atari was out. If I had to guess, I would say that more people under 18 are gaming if for no other reason than the fact that they have more time and less responsibilities. I could be wrong, but that's my stereotype and an entirely different Off-Topic discussion altogether.

@ColdShadow, thank you.

@JaRDoS, you're right: kick Duke Nukem forever while it's still down. Ha! But seriously, there are a host of confounding variables to whatever study the devs used, that (without knowing how the study was done) I would draw the assumption that those numbers they posted may be relevant to their "study" but are probably not statistically significant to generalize to the entire population.

[Watson]

Strange, but I've almost always finished the games I've played, however dependent on factors such as the game's length, the story and missions I would sometimes take a hiatus. The original Deus Ex is an example, it's a great game, but I took a break about half way through and returned to it after a while. That worked out quite well as it’s a game that wasn't really meant to be rushed through. I've haven't often come across a game I received or bought that was bad enough for me not wanting to waste my time on it, probably because if I see a game with poor reviews and it appears uninteresting and tedious I decide not to finish it by not purchasing it. Interesting to note that there are of course games which don't really have an "ending" - simulators, certain tycoon games, city-builders, those can go on for a seemingly infinite time. The player habitually has the capacity to determine when they're "finished" by deciding to stop playing after they've built their desired metropolis, developed a thriving economy and constructed a colossal statue of himself/herself (the mayor).

If the analysis here is based on players receiving a "Finished Game" Achievement, I wouldn't categorise it as being very reliable. It’d be useful to know more details about this research and how precisely the numbers were calculated. When it comes to determining whether only 20% of players are expected to finish the game it would be interesting to look at the number of global pre-orders and compare that to projected sales figures. I'd expect the chances of someone who's specifically pre-purchased/pre-ordered the game ahead of time has a greater chance of reaching the end of the game than someone who's walked into the store and casually bought the game after release. A player who's pre-ordered is likely a fan/follower of the series and/or of the genre. I wouldn't hesitate to guess that almost all actively participating members of Hitmanforum.com will finish the game, even if they don't like it. I'd argue there is clearly an incentive for Hitman fans to finish Absolution even if they begin hating it while playing (which I doubt) simply for reasons such as being able to discuss the game and complain about it.

[ThaCrip]

@thacrip, I come from a generation where the Apple 2e and Nintendo 8 bit system were in and the Atari was out. If I had to guess, I would say that more people under 18 are gaming if for no other reason than the fact that they have more time and less responsibilities. I could be wrong, but that's my stereotype and an entirely different Off-Topic discussion altogether.

sure, they might have more free time and all but in total number of people who play games (like only counting people that take em more seriously and not just a casual player who plays games more for a social thing than actually getting into the games themselves) it's pretty safe to say the 18+ are ahead of the 17 or under age brackets. although if you went by 'time played' on your average week or month, then it's possible you could be right about the 17 or younger age brackets. although if i took a guess ill bet there is still many who are in their early 20's who spend a lot of their free time on games.

but as you already know the original Nintendo is really when video games hit it big and where here to stay which was pretty much in that 1985-1990 (or so) time frame.

[hitmanhunter]

and the 80% will play COD online until their eye's melt out of their head.

So much COD hate out there. AC, too. Probably has something to do with the yearly production cycles vs 6 years since blood money.


I don't finish every game I start. far from it. I can probably account for being in the 80% of gamers that don't finish games they buy. In the past 3 years, I have only completed Red Dead, ME2, Portal 2, Fable 3 and both Batman Arkham games. (I am still gonna finish Skyrim, though!). I have played tons of other games in that 3 years. If they don't hold my interest, though, I'm gonna switch it up. This is especially true if there is a better game coming out. If not, there's always COD! I'm 31, and have kids. I don't have time to waste on a game that i'm not enjoying.


It should go without saying that I have finished Blood Money many many times, but I'll go ahead and say it before I'm crucified by an angry mob.

[MrPistolLaw]

@hitmanhunter, I completely get what you're saying. I like the CoD franchise as the games are exhilarating, but they wear me out. Too much trigger happy action.

[hitmanhunter]

@mrpistollaw- totally agree. I don't even play the story modes any more for COD, but multiplayer is fun sometimes. I'm missing the glory days of MP on red dead redemption.

[ThaCrip]

So much COD hate out there. AC, too. Probably has something to do with the yearly production cycles vs 6 years since blood money.

i think it has more to do with people dis anything that's one of the stereotypes of a mainstream gamer which i think CoD is a nice example of that, especially when they find the series to be not as good as it's sales suggest it is.

and personally... i tried AC once but lost interest it in quickly (Hitman is far better) and CoD series i somewhat liked but more in it's earlier days than now, but it's OK (it's not as overrated as Halo series is). it's no where near as good as it's sales suggest it is. so it ends up being one of those games people like to make fun of and with them churning out the same ol' same ol' year after year it sort of falls into that "just another shooter" type category (and people keeping buying them like crazy it seems) especially in terms of single player which is what i usually prefer in general but i guess those games are probably more popular for their multiplayer than anything else (which i suspect basically makes them half-ass the single player side since they know people are mostly buying it for multiplayer). but even multiplayer shooter wise, i think nothing beats Counter-Strike personally and that game is 12-13 years old and even the Counter-Strike source version was 2004 and that's pretty much just a better graphics version of the original.

plus as you said those yearly production cycle stuff sure ain't doing the games any favors. lol

[daniel.ben-noon]

I can't understand why they come up with such a Stupid Assumption because as I see it now stealth games have already died with only this game still holding the crown.

its an overall average number for any game and not hitman specificly.

there is a great number of reasons why people doesnt complete a game. they get tired of it. something else comes out and so on. and its not really age related either. kids might have a shorter attention span but older people have less time and probably a more pragmatic attitude to games- "so i played skyrim for 50 hours and the last 20 was a grind, why would i continue when there are other interesting games out there" or things such jobs, family and especially having kids take up all time.

this is also a case where most of you guys doesnt really represent the norm as you are more passionate gamers than most.

i dont use steam, but i believe you can look at a specific game and see how many have unlocked a speicfic achivement, in which case a clear trend at how many make it through to the later progress related achivements. you would be suprised at how many often doesnt make it past the first few levels. am sure you can do the same comparison with your friends' achivement and trophy lists on consoles.

/daniel

[Best for Hire]

IO has just got a ton of respect from from me. I have no doubts for Hitman Absolution anymore.