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#41 hitmanfan778

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:28 PM

Okay. Let me try to explain then, since the video didn't convince you.
In this video did you notice that he could pass a helicopter dressed as a cop? Yeah, not possible. I tried.
In this video did you notice that he could pass a lot of cops in that hallway and only a few actually thought he was suspicious? Yeah, not possible. I tried.

This is what I mean. Disguises are close to useless. If they intended for you to use instinct to pass that, you won't make it, because you don't have near enough. It runs out so quickly. The only way to get even close to what they did in the demo, would be to try on Easy. Even then it's hard. On EASY.


I notice that the helicopter still be able to spot you even though are you disguising, but at least you still can go into the weed house unnoticed
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#42 vipar

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:30 PM

I notice that the helicopter still be able to spot you even though are you disguising, but at least you still can go into the weed house unnoticed


You must have been born under a lucky star or something. I even tried on Easy, and it wasn't possible, Lol
I still managed somehow to get a suspicious alarm.
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#43 JaRDoS

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:51 PM

Okay. Let me try to explain then, since the video didn't convince you.
In this video did you notice that he could pass a helicopter dressed as a cop? Yeah, not possible. I tried.
In this video did you notice that he could pass a lot of cops in that hallway and only a few actually thought he was suspicious? Yeah, not possible. I tried.
This is what I mean. Disguises are close to useless. If they intended for you to use instinct to pass that, you won't make it, because you don't have near enough. It runs out so quickly. The only way to get even close to what they did in the demo, would be to try on Easy. Even then it's hard. On EASY.

If things went as easy as they do in the demo video then the game would be damn boring. It's considered normal for studios to adjust factors such as arrangement of mobs, which mobs can see through disguises, etc to adjust difficulty - because when they're doing the alpha video demo they haven't finished enough to begin beta testing so can't tweak difficulty. If there were no significant changes between the alpha demo release and the finished game then it'd be shockingly bad.

Disguises for the walk though the cop section would have always been useless, because in previous titles getting that close to that many enemies would have meant your suspicion metre peaked and you'd be shot to pieces. The video was to demonstrate that the disguise works on non-cops (the hippies, the tenant in the elevator) and you need to use Instinct to make it work on the cops (because they know what cops look like).

Also, it's pretty normal to show demos on the lowest difficulty level - that way it makes the game look fun and accessible. Nobody wants to play a game where it looks like you'll die so often you should bind the quicksave and quickload keys to your mouse.
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#44 vipar

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:58 PM

If things went as easy as they do in the demo video then the game would be damn boring. It's considered normal for studios to adjust factors such as arrangement of mobs, which mobs can see through disguises, etc to adjust difficulty - because when they're doing the alpha video demo they haven't finished enough to begin beta testing so can't tweak difficulty. If there were no significant changes between the alpha demo release and the finished game then it'd be shockingly bad.

Disguises for the walk though the cop section would have always been useless, because in previous titles getting that close to that many enemies would have meant your suspicion metre peaked and you'd be shot to pieces. The video was to demonstrate that the disguise works on non-cops (the hippies, the tenant in the elevator) and you need to use Instinct to make it work on the cops (because they know what cops look like).

Also, it's pretty normal to show demos on the lowest difficulty level - that way it makes the game look fun and accessible. Nobody wants to play a game where it looks like you'll die so often you should bind the quicksave and quickload keys to your mouse.


You are talking about the extremes rather than what would be sensible.
Disguises are useless the more NPCs on the level wears the same disguise. Every single NPC with the same disguise can pick you out. This is a problem, because it means that you can't blend in, act out the role of those you've stolen a disguise from and ultimately feel like you were an assassin getting close to your target through those he or she trusts.

Then I might as well play Assassins Creed. At least then the objective is clear. You are an assassin who does parkour. Everyone will try to stop you. Have fun.

That's not what Hitman is.
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#45 RealestHitman

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:03 PM

im luvin this game enjoying every moment!!!.. easily the best game i have played this year and im at the stripclub level!! disguises are no problem at all i like it the way that the same disguises will look through it and others dont it makes the game really challenging and makes you think about planning your moves.. it just takes getting used too and once you do you wont get spotted easily combining instinct trust me i am playing it on hard.. now i dont use any other instinct moves that makes the game lame in my opinion..
i loved blood money to death but this still feels very much like a hitman game to me.. i still play this game like i did with blood money stalking targets ..sure some moments of the game is like MGS or some other stealth game but there still is a lot of sandbox gameplay involved.. i put like 3 hours on KOCT.. lol that shit is hard i bet i came up with a solution which no one could think off..enough about gameplay.. the graphics are stunning.. i have never seen a console game with such graphics..only thing i dislike for now was the run for your life mission because i alrdy saw a full walktrough from that before started playing

Edited by RealestHitman, 20 November 2012 - 07:09 PM.

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#46 JaRDoS

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:06 PM

You are talking about the extremes rather than what would be sensible.
Disguises are useless the more NPCs on the level wears the same disguise. Every single NPC with the same disguise can pick you out. This is a problem, because it means that you can't blend in, act out the role of those you've stolen a disguise from and ultimately feel like you were an assassin getting close to your target through those he or she trusts.

So your problem is: The developers didn't make a game that lets me get a perfect score for doing things the way I wanted to do, even though there was no indication I'd be able to do this in their promo material. This is why people are challenging your claims it's "broken".

You use disguises to access areas you could not previously, that's exactly how it worked in the previous game. The main difference is in the previous games there was a "King" disguise that would allow you to go anywhere due to it being a figure of limitless authority - now disguises allow access to some areas and fool some people, it's added a new level of complexity to the game.

Which is good, given how many people were screaming it'd be too easy when they saw the demo.

Then I might as well play Assassins Creed. At least then the objective is clear. You are an assassin who does parkour. Everyone will try to stop you. Have fun.

Faffing About Creed? Completely different game. But if you had more fun playing it than playing Hitman then perhaps you should play it more, not point in playing a game you don't enjoy or don't want to enjoy.

That's not what Hitman is.

Indeed, Hitman: Absolution is not Assassin's Creed, I'm glad we agree.
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#47 vipar

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:11 PM

So your problem is: The developers didn't make a game that lets me get a perfect score for doing things the way I wanted to do, even though there was no indication I'd be able to do this in their promo material. This is why people are challenging your claims it's "broken".


The Developers showed me a promise of an interesting mechanic (Instinct) and how disguises are now used, compared to before. This was not delivered seeing as anyone wearing the same disguise as you can see through it, making it close to useless, from miles away.

You use disguises to access areas you could not previously, that's exactly how it worked in the previous game. The main difference is in the previous games there was a "King" disguise that would allow you to go anywhere due to it being a figure of limitless authority - now disguises allow access to some areas and fool some people, it's added a new level of complexity to the game.

Which is good, given how many people were screaming it'd be too easy when they saw the demo.


I don't mind added complexity. I welcome it. What I don't welcome, are broken mechanics.

Faffing About Creed? Completely different game. But if you had more fun playing it than playing Hitman then perhaps you should play it more, not point in playing a game you don't enjoy or don't want to enjoy.

Indeed, Hitman: Absolution is not Assassin's Creed, I'm glad we agree.


Just making a statement, that Hitman is not Assassins Creed or actually Splinter Cell as others have claimed. It's trying to be though.
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#48 Derangedxzombie

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:21 PM

I'm a big Hitman fan. Hitman is in my Top 5 favorites of all time, and I've been into gaming for over 25 years. But this game is not what I was hoping for.

Let's start with the Pros:

- Looks great on PC when maxed
- Interface is better and more fluid than in BM
- Unlimited subdue ability
- Better gun play

And then.. the Cons:

- Disguises are fucked. People can spot you from a mile away when you're in disguise, what is this crap? I understand that they know their co-workers, but the distance for spotting should be a LOT shorter.
- The enemy doesn't find it suspicious, that the same guy crouches multiple times behind sofas and sneaks around. They lose all interest..
- Covering the face... well that's just lame. "Hey you, I don't remember seeing you here! Where do you think you're going?" *47 covers face* "Oh you covered your face, then it's ok!"
- The whole Instinct business. IO told us that it can be turned off. Yeah it can, but can you score Silent Assasin on harder difficulty modes without it, or even pass levels on Purist? Hardly.
- Checkpoints. Wouldn't matter to me if the game wasn't so frickin' hard (because of the lame disguise system). Never saved in Blood Money and always played on Professional, suddenly I find myself playing on Normal and cursing about blown covers all the time.

For me, these cons are a game breaker. I would want to like this game sooooo bad, but I just fucking can't. IO went with the mob and started to copy mainstream Stealth games like Splinter Cell: Conviction. The result is (like in Sam Fisher's case) the downfall of another once great game series.

R.I.P Hitman. Luckily I still have Blood Money.


When I run or crouch behind things, the guards do get suspicious. What difficulty are you playing it on? The disguise system is just being realistic, people can see pretty far, and it makes it a good challenge. But I do admit it is hard, on the top of the terminus hotel only guards are allowed up there meaning you can't really use the disguise, you have to be ninja or kill everyone.


Fun game otherwise.

Edited by Derangedxzombie, 20 November 2012 - 07:38 PM.

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#49 JaRDoS

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:25 PM

The Developers showed me a promise of an interesting mechanic (Instinct) and how disguises are now used, compared to before. This was not delivered seeing as anyone wearing the same disguise as you can see through it, making it close to useless, from miles away.

Again: You made the assumption that at a distance your disguise would work without needing Instinct. Developers are not responsible for your assumptions and disappointments you feel as a basis of those assumptions.

I don't mind added complexity. I welcome it. What I don't welcome, are broken mechanics.

Apparently you do, since you are labelling the additional complexity and challenges as "broken" and telling anyone who feels differently they are objectively wrong.

Just making a statement, that Hitman is not Assassins Creed or actually Splinter Cell as others have claimed. It's trying to be though.

This is a pointless statement that adds nothing to the conversation and isn't even correct. It is not trying to be either of those titles, since both are parkour simulators which use entirely different approaches, goals, characters and story types. You're just trying to reference them as a claim that a mechanic you're having difficulty with and don't agree with the implementation of isn't up to your standards.

Unless I've been playing wrong and I did have the options to pretty much all walls, kill all the guards I wanted with little to no consequence and have Benny Hill style chase scenes.
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#50 vipar

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:33 PM

Again: You made the assumption that at a distance your disguise would work without needing Instinct. Developers are not responsible for your assumptions and disappointments you feel as a basis of those assumptions.


So I guess false advertisement is okay. I was shown something that wasn't like that of the product I bought. Seems fair.

Apparently you do, since you are labelling the additional complexity and challenges as "broken" and telling anyone who feels differently they are objectively wrong.


Go tell that to all of those who also made a post about this issue. More and more people posted that the disguises do not work in their current state. They are simply too weak. Are all of those people also wrong? How about those reviews that honestly rated the game badly? Like Rock-Paper-Shotgun for example. Are they wrong too? How much does it take to convince you honestly? :P

This is a pointless statement that adds nothing to the conversation and isn't even correct. It is not trying to be either of those titles, since both are parkour simulators which use entirely different approaches, goals, characters and story types. You're just trying to reference them as a claim that a mechanic you're having difficulty with and don't agree with the implementation of isn't up to your standards.


This went from being a Contract Killer game to a weird Stealth game with cover-to-cover mechanics that no one really wanted or asked for. What surprises me is that IO probably sees this as trying something new, even though this is already present in most modern shooters any way ~

Unless I've been playing wrong and I did have the options to pretty much all walls, kill all the guards I wanted with little to no consequence and have Benny Hill style chase scenes.


Not really sure what you mean with that.
The game penalizes you for killing Innocent people or people that not your target. Kinda silly. I know it also did that in Blood Money and Contracts too as far as I remember, but at least you didn't have to look at your score as you go. Kinda silly concept for a Single Player campaign.
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#51 JaRDoS

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:07 PM

So I guess false advertisement is okay. I was shown something that wasn't like that of the product I bought. Seems fair.

Show me in the video where it states that you won't need to use Instinct at a distance of greater than ten feet. Also show me where it says "Even though this is an Alpha video, we promise nothing will change".

Go tell that to all of those who also made a post about this issue. More and more people posted that the disguises do not work in their current state. They are simply too weak. Are all of those people also wrong? How about those reviews that honestly rated the game badly? Like Rock-Paper-Shotgun for example. Are they wrong too? How much does it take to convince you honestly? :P

Facts. Facts convince me. Emotional outbursts, people making the same thread over and over, reviewers opinions of the game etc don't really sway me in the slightest. The more I see a poster or a reviewer go on about the "true hitman experience" the less likely I am to pay attention to them because frankly, they're just telling me how the game compared to the game in their imagination.

Not Hitman game will ever be as awesome as how a potential Hitman game in my imagination can be. That's because my imagination isn't subject to mortal limitations.

More importantly: Why is it important to you that other people have the same emotional response? Are you not sure that your response is valid unless you have peer approval?

This went from being a Contract Killer game to a weird Stealth game with cover-to-cover mechanics that no one really wanted or asked for. What surprises me is that IO probably sees this as trying something new, even though this is already present in most modern shooters any way ~

Plenty of people made "suit only" playthroughs of Blood Money and have using exploits and tricks from all the games to do stealth/cover based assassinations in favour of disguise ones - and I personally I know I am very happy to have more stealth options so I don't know on what basis you think you can say "nobody asked for".

Not really sure what you mean with that.
The game penalizes you for killing Innocent people or people that not your target. Kinda silly. I know it also did that in Blood Money and Contracts too as far as I remember, but at least you didn't have to look at your score as you go. Kinda silly concept for a Single Player campaign.

Those were aspects of the other two games you're comparing it to. I hastily assumed you may have played them or at least knew something about them.
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#52 Codeman: Hitname 74

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:25 PM

JaRDoS, you sound way too upset about people not liking this game having taken a complete different direction than the games before. If anyone is having an emotional outburst it's probably you.
You're not being rational. Do you work for IO or have they invited you and now you feel obliged to protect them from criticism because they were nice to you? Because I'm getting those kind of vibes from you.

Edited by Codeman: Hitname 74, 20 November 2012 - 08:25 PM.

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#53 Swartz

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:31 PM

JaRDoS, you sound way too upset about people not liking this game having taken a complete different direction than the games before. If anyone is having an emotional outburst it's probably you.
You're not being rational. Do you work for IO or have they invited you and now you feel obliged to protect them from criticism because they were nice to you? Because I'm getting those kind of vibes from you.


Same. JarDoS is acting like a total fanboy.
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#54 JaRDoS

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:35 PM

JaRDoS, you sound way too upset about people not liking this game having taken a complete different direction than the games before. If anyone is having an emotional outburst it's probably you.

An emotional outburst is pointing out that opinions are not objective? Or just not agreeing with you?

You're not being rational. Do you work for IO or have they invited you and now you feel obliged to protect them from criticism because they were nice to you? Because I'm getting those kind of vibes from you.

In the interest of full disclosure I shall list all the things IOI have gifted me for helping out on these forums over the years:

-
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I do however, dislike people spamming up the forums with the same complaints over and over and then insisting anyone who disagrees is "wrong".

Do feel free to point out where you feel I am being irrational though.
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#55 Codeman: Hitname 74

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:40 PM

An emotional outburst is pointing out that opinions are not objective? Or just not agreeing with you?

In the interest of full disclosure I shall list all the things IOI have gifted me for helping out on these forums over the years:

-
-
-

I do however, dislike people spamming up the forums with the same complaints over and over and then insisting anyone who disagrees is "wrong".

Do feel free to point out where you feel I am being irrational though.

People are merely stating an opinion about a product they don't like and you get so upset about that that you feel the need to pick their posts apart sentence by sentence to tell them why they shouldn't be allowed to dislike absolution.
How about you just deal with it?
You can throw walls of text at anyone who utters criticism about the game and relativize, but that wont change the fact that most people feel disgusted and disappointed with certain game design choices that served to rather limit the freedom of the player than to expand it. And I guess it's not going to make them like the game any more either, you can't force people to like the game.

Edited by Codeman: Hitname 74, 20 November 2012 - 08:41 PM.

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#56 JaRDoS

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:50 PM

People are merely stating an opinion about a product they don't like and you get so upset about that that you feel the need to pick their posts apart sentence by sentence to tell them why they shouldn't be allowed to dislike absolution.

I haven't said that he's not allowed to dislike Absolution. I stated that he'll have more luck if he doesn't label the bits he doesn't like as "broken" and otherwise objectively wrong - pointing out that there are games I feel similarly about but I acknowledge it's because they don't match my preferences/expectations. He's continued to post about it and so have I, this is called discussion. The term "forum" implies this is where there is discussion.

How about you just deal with it?

Not sure what you want me to deal with?

You can throw walls of text at anyone who utters criticism about the game and relativize, but that wont change the fact that most people feel disgusted and disappointed with certain game design choices that served to rather limit the freedom of the player than to expand it. And I guess it's not going to make them like the game any more either, you can't force people to like the game.

Most people? You've conducted a census then? When? Why I didn't get asked to vote? Most of the collective review sites I've seen have been giving it 7-8/10 based on averages.

See: This is irrational. Assuming because you find some people who agree with you that you represent "most people". I honestly don't know what "most people" think - I assume "most people" don't care because they have bigger problems then a video game they're not going to play.

So, my calling people out on their irrational belief that they represent "most people" and hence are "right" (popularity does not equate to being correct). It certainly doesn't create anything resembling productive discussion if one person posts their opinion and expects everyone to unconditionally agree with them.
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#57 Codeman: Hitname 74

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:59 PM

Not sure what you want me to deal with?

Deal with the fact that not everyone has the same opinion as you. You're getting way too worked up over this. Just calm down and accept it.

I'm talking about stuff like this:

Most people? You've conducted a census then? When? Why I didn't get asked to vote? Most of the collective review sites I've seen have been giving it 7-8/10 based on averages.

See: This is irrational. Asking 4 questions in a row.
Goes to show how upset you are over people voicing criticism about the game.


Assuming because you find some people who agree with you that you represent "most people". I honestly don't know what "most people" think - I assume "most people" don't care because they have bigger problems then a video game they're not going to play.

Here, again completely irrational reasoning on your part. You are so upset in your rage that you can't even read coherently anymore.

"You can throw walls of text at anyone who utters criticism about the game and relativize, but that wont change the fact that most people feel disgusted and disappointed"

The most people obviously refers to anyone who utters criticism.


By the way I guess most people have bigger problems than to get this visibly shaken up over people not liking a videogame, which is honestly way more irrational than getting upset over your favourite videogame getting a sequel that is not to your liking.


Maybe you should drink a cup of tea, calm down and go to bed.
You come over like a rabbid fanboy or someone with extreme buyer's remorse at the moment.
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#58 Agent 17

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:04 PM

I just started playing the game a couple hours ago and I'm only on the King of Chinatown but the disguise stuff has been bugging me so far. I think it's silly how you can't cover your face whenever you feel like it. That would be like Arkham City only letting you use the grappling hook after performing enough silent takedowns.

Blood Money was overly easy, but I think Absolution's disguises are too weak (I'm on expert difficulty). Now, wearing a disguise in public is nearly as much of a risky "commitment to action" as killing someone or sneaking into a restricted area. At least in this Chinatown mission where there's police and chefs everywhere, mixed into the crowd.

Still waaaaay too early to pass judgment on this game, and these aren't deal breakers, so we'll see. Just my thoughts so far.

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#59 JaRDoS

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:15 PM

Deal with the fact that not everyone has the same opinion as you. You're getting way too worked up over this. Just calm down and accept it.

That people don't like the game is not really a shock to me. I've been a member here since the first game and a mod through most of the releases, this release was especially fun 'cause of so many people screaming it was going to suck when the video was released.

I'm talking about stuff like this:

See: This is irrational. Asking 4 questions in a row.

There is nothing irrational about asking multiple questions. Many people would be much more rational if they would ask more questions. In this case though the collection was simply to highlight that you have stated something you have no factual basis behind. You're now trying to cover it by trying to state I could only do this if I was upset.

Goes to show how upset you are over people voicing criticism about the game.

I think it more goes towards your need to believe I'm upset - therefore anything I say must be invalid, because if it's not invalid you don't have a response to it. Othewise you'd have rational arguments pointing to facts and logical workings rather than just trying to play to claims of my emotional state.

Still waiting for those answers btw.

Here, again completely irrational reasoning on your part. You are so upset in your rage that you can't even read coherently anymore.

? ? ?

"You can throw walls of text at anyone who utters criticism about the game and relativize, but that wont change the fact that most people feel disgusted and disappointed"

The most people obviously refers to anyone who utters criticism.

No. If it was to be clear it'd read "most of these people". That limits the group of people to those who are mentioned. "most people" means most people from the world at large. And your claim is still no more valid because you haven't actually done a survey of people who were disappointed or upset, you're again just going off the assumption that they way you feel is shared by the group.

By the way I guess most people have bigger problems than to get this visibly shaken up over people not liking a videogame, which is honestly way more irrational than getting upset over your favourite videogame getting a sequel that is not to your liking.

Disagreeing with people is now "visibly shaken up" ?

Maybe you should drink a cup of tea, calm down and go to bed.
You come over like a rabbid fanboy or someone with extreme buyer's remorse at the moment.

"rabid fanboy" is not agreeing with the people who you have just conceded are not actually "most people" but rather a "most people" out of a theoretical group defined by being those people? How about you try actually arguing the points instead of trying of ad hominem?
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#60 Codeman: Hitname 74

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:25 PM

Again, calm down dude.
Not disrespecting you. But you are in a thread called "huge disappointment" and you get angry over people voicing their dislike of the game?
Seems like you are actually either trying to silence them or looking for fights with people who will lash back at you.

Why dont you make a thread "Huge success" and list all the reasons why you love the linear levels and the new disguise system?
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