That's because atheism is precisely not a religion, it is merely a state of mind, a position that consists in not believing in gods - I could even believe in ghosts, afterlives and so on and still be an atheist. As for Marxists, I don't claim they are guilt free or that they weren't/aren't true atheists, my point is simply that it's irrelevant their religious belief because their form of organizing the state actually comes to closer to - GUESS WHAT - A religion and not a lack of something!
This isn't a double standard, it's a standard
Then prove me god exists - The philosophy is irrelevant, most atheists are not interested in reading philosophy books or learning about philosophy and the materialist part is irrelevant because I can believe in afterlives and ghosts if I wish - In fact you can be atheist and spiritualist - I for example am an atheist but not materialist because I think some things like morality are not measurable by matter
Actually evidence points towards scientists mostly elite scientists being less likely to be religious - But I don't give a flying fuck, I want scientists to be productive and I dont' care about what they believe or not
No, it's simply that if you look at different religions and its fundamentalists you will find that some are worse than others - You don't see a lot of reports about isolated african or amazonian tribal religions causing suicide bombings - My point isn't that its worse but that the fact you pointed out the problem with Jainism (1) Proves the point indirectly that religion is bad because there will always be someone fucking everything up (2) Doesn't change anything previously - Let me tell you this:
Fundamentalism means having a doctrine and following it literally, every word (oral or written) and making no exceptions - A Fundamentalist for example will think that "Thou shall not kill" (Random example) is absolute while a liberal/moderate will think you may be able to kill in self defense - a Fundie believes the bible is literally the word of god while a moderate may see it as a spiritual guide - Regardless of what you believe, the words are there and if people bomb someone or kill someone and claim to avenge a prophet, a figure or god then I see no reason to not believe them - If I kill someone tomorrow and claim to the cops it was to please the god in the old testament would that mean I'm not Christian?
Also, it's actually possible to quantify the number of harm done by religions - Christianity and Islam in particular are worse (I'm thinking about crusades and inquisition but mostly the latter) - Just taking a look at terrorist group lists will show you that there are more extremist groups for these religions (and some for Judaism) than for Jainism and tribal small religions etc - Can you honestly explain me since I'm apparently so dumb why are there so many terrorist Islamic groups? Why do they do shit? many claim to follow the Quran and quote verses, I think it was ISIS who delivered something on how to treat sex slaves - So tell me....
First things first - I noticed that in the later replies you said several times that I don't know anything about religion - I like your posts (really) but you have a terrible habit of assuming things about other members and honestly you should be careful about that because you may end up in wrong conclusions - In this case I've been raised Christian by my parents so to claim I don't know anything about religion is naive - Because I do know I left it - What do you know exactly?
Secondly, I don't give a damn about the following list and I'm pretty aware that all those things are good for religious people but none says if religion is true or false - There's so many religions that I have no idea which one I would believe and because of that it's irrelevant the comfort of philosphy if the idea seems false or unreasonable to me
Atheists are a very diverse group so you dont' get to actually claim what we stand for or not - You can find neo nazi atheists and communist social justice activist ones - We're not a monolithic group and from my experience (limited) few of us would actually say that religion doesn't bring good because it does - It's just that that good is based on an idea we consider unlikely to be true and people are better off searching comfort in other ways - Granted I've struggled because I don't believe in life after death I've found happiness in many things in life like my family, my girlfriend, my degree and lately my new dog
So the old testament pretty much is irrelevant and are the rules don't matter? What if the old testament claims it matters? What do we do? When did jesus explicitly cancel the old testament?
Precisely my point so thanks for corroborating - I never said the WBC defines Christianity and I don't think ISIS defines Islam that would be unreasonable but they're still Christians and Muslims - My main question was - Why are these believers bad? They claim to follow god's word, so why are they wrong and moderates are right? Can't moderates be wrong? don't moderates pretty much metaphorically interpret each bad verse to fit a more moral outcome in your everyday life?
Do you have any reasonable predictions? Do most people in society hate religious people so much that it would cause a holocaust of religious people? I don't see a reason why a western country with laws would allow an anti-religious book when secularism means (I'm a law student) the freedom to live in society without the imposition of any spiritual or theist beliefs or otherwise - This means that at least in my country and according to my constitution a government cannot allow an anti-religion book to be passed in public schools and I guess Britain and so on also have laws protecting minorities and religious groups (heck the queen is the head of the Church)
I find that reprehensible - But anyway I'm not going to teach my kids to be atheists, I'll let them pick.
Do you have any numbers on how many atheists worship Dawkins at least to the extent of killing other people for them? I understand why religion appeals because I'm an ex-Christian and I've struggled for a lot of time to face the fact it's not likely to be a god (the thought of dead terrifies me without an afterlife) - Your belief that I don't understand religion or its need is unreasonable because I feel compelled many times to change my mind because it's not easy to live without believing in a higher purpose - I've varied between agnostic theism and atheism many times because sometimes I wished to believe in a higher being but I just can't anymore - To say we don't understand the appeal is ridiculous because atheists are a diverse group and many are ex-theists who were brought up as kids to Christianity, Islam, etc and have read the books, gone to church etc - Don't you find weird that sometimes apostates can be the most anti-religious people ever (kinda like ex-smokers sometimes become the most militant anti-smoking people)?
To explain what is and isn't a religion I don't need an expert card and your ad hominem is pretty much useless because what I said previously is irrelevant to the point being made now, I could have said religious people are all devils that wouldn't invalidate the fact that a religion is usually (simple definition) a sect of beliefs and rules about the world, societies, the supernatural and other things - Atheism is not that therefore it isn't a religion - End of story, you're embarrassing yourself by calling us a religion.
And yes, the fact I don't worship atheists doesn't mean I can't use their quotes because some arguments and debates have proven quite useful to debate theists in real life and discuss atheism when someone requires it (other than that I'm not interested in doing it voluntarily) - I like theatheistvoice youtuber because he's more moderate and discusses things that matter and can actually affect atheists on daily lives
As for your affirmation on fundamentalism - Can you prove that? - And why does fundamentalism arise in the first place? I'm not saying everyone in it doesn't have other interests or that there is no political power involved or economic variables but who's in charge? Why are organizations like ISIS called Islamic terrorists and not "family protection of members terrorists"? My whole argument here is that fundamentalism shows us the worst in each religion - The argument that "it's not religion it's something else" is useless because it can be applied to ANYTHING - I could argue perfectly that corporate leaders are not motivated by profit but because they want to run the world or that political leaders aren't really political but motivated by money or religion - What's the point? I can say that to pretty much anyone about anything, it's a useless argument that only strawmans - You can say that some people have bad interpretations of the Quran, but they are as Muslim as anyone else - Or do you believe ISIS is not "Muslim" and is non-theist or Christian?
I call it an ideologically motivated murder possibly by anti-religious sentiment.
Let me rephrase this:
Atheism - Non belief in gods - The maximum you can get out of atheism is someone who is 100% sure there are no gods at all, everything else like hating religion is not atheism but...
Anti-theism - A simple google will pretty much tell you what anti-theism is and it's a position that applies well to people like Hitchens - He said it himself he was an anti-theist - Another thing you don't get is that anti-theism isn't a property of atheism, I could believe in god and be anti-theist to other religions or I could be a deist or a spiritualist and be anti-religion against organized religion - My whole point is that it can't be motivated by atheism because it is logically impossible to be motivated by a lack of belief in something just like I can't be motivated to kill someone because I don't believe in aliens or don't play golf. Get your facts straight, maybe research a bit on atheism, talk to some etc
Are you asking me to answer this questions as an atheist?
Not special, but not being religious is clearly different from being religious. Atheism doesn't have a bible, no commandments, you can literally find atheists without nothing in common accross the globe with all kinds of beliefs and lifestyles - If you go to a religion you will most likely encounter people who at the very least believe in the same god and figure (Jesus and so on) and believe in some commandments, sometimes read a book, believe they are going to heaven and that there's a hell, and this spreads until someone believes gays are raging against god and other horrible things
I haven't read his books or any "atheist" books but did Christopher Hitchens actually advocate something like Bin Laden? You still not follow the reasoning here - Books matter when their put in a pedestal - For a religion who declares itself the truth about the world the book contains the rules - Books written by figures like Hitchens are there for people to buy but you don't have a commandment saying you need to believe to go to heaven - So yes, books matter, but there are no books on "atheism" - At the most you could write a book about the virtues of being atheist like being free from going to church and other things but most content in those books is anti-theist and not merely atheist - In fact a book about atheism could be simply a blank page, it would fit. I believe anti-theistic sentiment can behave like a religion sometimes and I don't think those people as a group are guilt-free but that's much more than simply being an atheist, it's wanting to destroy religion and eradicate religious people. Be clear - What do you actually object to a person speaking his/her mind in a book and giving lectures saying that religion sucks if that's their opinion ? Wouldn't a priest be able to say atheism sucks because to be saved Jesus is the one to follow? Isn't this merely people expressing contrary opinions?
I agree and there are groups, but what's the point? Inevitably if you get yourself in a group it will get blood on its hands and you will be seen poorly because of actions of others - Speaking of that, how many atheists kill people because of a lack of belief in god?
Personal experience is irrelevant - But I'm not interest in those groups either way
It was only in favour of the working class, to some degree
I don't see why I should consider this since this accusation has no evidence
God lord yes I was raised Catholic (Christian) - My point here isn't that everyone follows the pope but the figure of the pope is usually someone with vast knowledge who studied the bible and other Christian teachings his whole life to reach the position - My question is why is Christianity LGBT friendly? what do you do about verses condemning gay people?
Because those books are more directed towards anti-theism and not atheism as I've explained - Everything else will be repetition - But to clear something up it will be hard for you to find a book by an atheist that claims it is the ultimate truth and that to be saved you need to believe in something. Books from people like Hitchens merely throw out an opinion but they don't say people who don't believe will go to hell and there is no coercion for you to actually believe everything the book says, not to mention those books usually are backed up by consistent arguments and make clear points - What do you believe in all honesty that is dangerous about people like Hitchens releasing books? Do you think it's any worse than (imagine) an anti-communist releasing a book called "why communism sucks"?
I ask the same question to you
No, it makes sense, but would ISIS exist if Islam didn't exist? Answer this
Is it a coincidence that in certain religions you can always find violent people willing to have dangerous interpretations of its teachings?
Irrelevant and strawman
Another thing on fundamentalism - One of the things about fundamentalism that you probably know is that people refuse to change their mind and as you spoke yesterday they won't allow dissent on debate - Curiously this applies well to people who claim they will never leave their doctrine even if it's proven wrong but that's not something that applies to atheists - Most atheists are simply not convinced or see no reason at all to think there are gods or other supernatural beings but we will probably change our minds with reasonable evidence - I'm not demanding for god or Jesus Christ to show up in front of me but some good deduction arguments would probably be enough (without fallacies) - Main thing here is that we can't be considered fundamentalists about anything even if atheism was a religion because few of us actually claim to never change our minds, I would gladly admit I'm wrong if someday I'm convinced there is a god