HITMAN getting a comic book in October


#503

This isn’t a Hitman comic, guys. It’s a Cool, Bald Antihero Dude Fights Badder Guys and Stuff comic. Pretty decent outing for the series. Can’t wait for the next issue, where Cool, Bald Antihero Dude kills a bioterrorist by scraping his face with a cheesegrater. He also loses his virginity and smokes his first cigarillo. I’m pumped!!


#504

I think Diana will be a playable character in season 2.
She is a tenacious fighter.:japanese_goblin:


#505

Ok guys white’s piece on the second issue is up:
and this one is :ok_hand:
"You take a thing important to a man. And you beat him to death with it.” And even though 47 asks 6 if that’s a metaphor, it might as well be as that’s exactly how I feel after reading the second part of their adventures.


#506

They did mention some “franchise firsts” for the next Hitman game. Please let that not be the case.


#507

To be honest I’m really confused as to what you guys would expect in a Hitman comic.

100% consistency isn’t on the books, the series does not have consistency between any two games - and on top of that it would create the problem that the longer the series ran the more unfeasible it’d be since the characters would have to age more and more.

Furthermore it is pretty normal for long running episodic properties to adapt over time - the first game was practically a love letter to 80s/90s action movies: Leon, La Femme Nikita, Ronin, The Usual Suspects, Broken Arrow, Hard Boiled, etc. The sci-fi elements were also on par with media of the day: Terminator, Blade Runner, etc.

That’s pretty archaic by today’s standards and society’s concerns and interest have moved on, which was pretty reflected in the shift of the games tone:

Silent Assassin went with more mainstream action movie tropes
Contracts attempted to go all in on dark content being fashionable, it didn’t work out
Blood Money had the elements of politics vs science, concerns over super weapons, etc
Absolution was inspired by noveau grindhouse, violent man guards a woman, evil PMCs/arms dealers
HITMAN is more about idea that ruthless super elite live above consequences

If they tried to maintain perfect consistency in the current game and media, you’d end up with an utter mess that looked like the writers could not let go of decades passed and kept re-watching the same old movies. That didn’t work out well for the new Ghostbusters movie or Duke Nukem Forever.

Also, given that the writing team have talked about how the games are being refined as they go, in response to new inspiration and responses - they can’t really give the comic writers great guidance on what to do - nor would they want to really. The writers have talked about how they needed the freedom to reinvent and change the property to work with the overall vision, it’d be shit if they denied that to the comic writers.

Overall it’s a pretty fun and larger than life re-imagining of the origins for such characters, complete with the goofy over the top violence, secret societies, ridiculous “it was the plan all along” cliches, etc, so it’s basically what I expected: And so far has been more satisfying that the Enemy Within novel, the movies or the last comic.


#508

I was at least hoping for some decent characterisation, and maybe even the ability to keep their own timeline straight. So far, the details are as lazy as the story is goofy.

Vogt’s involved in this story, so it seems like the Hitman writing team has plenty of creative input. And they’d have to, to make sure that this version of lore is in line with the story they want to tell in Season 2 and 3.

I don’t think it’s fun at all, I think it’s a shame to have watered down the characters to this extent. I wouldn’t mind at all if this wasn’t going to impact the games, but as it is, I was hoping for something more.


#509

Diana’s characterisation seems pretty decent given it’s her as an impulsive teenager who demonstrates an unusual amount of focus, discipline and comfort with violence. 47 is shown to driven and capable of deception to his creator, himself and his brothers.

Again, what exactly were you expecting? To find out who Diana dated in college? Find out if 47 got to listen to the Beatles?

As above: Hitman has never maintained a straight timeline, not even in the first game where 47 “escapes” from the asylum, then is instantly hired by the ICA and goes on his mission where it becomes apparent that his five fathers are all supposed to be in communication, checking on progress of the project, etc but none of them stopped to go “hey, that guy who killed Lee Hong sounds awfully familiar…”

A writing credit doesn’t mean a massive involvement, it means some participation and they felt it appropriate to credit him. Ryûzô Kikushima (1914 - 1989) has a writing credit for Last Man Standing (1996) because it was essentially a re-imagining of his older work, Yojimbo (1961).

Furthermore there are some pretty obvious hooks that tie into the current story in HITMAN, particularly as to the circumstances that might have created The Shadow Client and why 47 would have heard of Providence but thought they were a myth (specifically a myth fed to him by his creator to keep him compliant and make him feel he had no choice in his role but to serve), and it’s only two issues in.

Is it exact fit for the games? No, but that would be because they only have so much time in the day and frankly, Hitman books, movies, etc can never be an exact fit simply because a large part of the appeal of the game is “play it your way”. 47 is a lot of different things to a lot of different people, depending on which option seems most "correct’ to them.

Is it a little heavy handed? Sure. But it’s a comic that has to get across a lot of information in an entertaining format in 22 pages, in comparison to a game that is intended to be played over, and over, and over with hundreds of lines of voice acting, cut scenes, etc hidden all throughout it.

If you don’t want to stop to consider and address these things, you’re really not in much of a position to point fingers at the creators.


#510

Not getting this. Care to elaborate?


#511

I disagree. Part of what made the 47 and Diana dynamic interesting was how they came from such different worlds. Also, Absolution’s set-up of Diana’s background, though vague, matched her in-game characterisation as someone with a patrician upbringing.

Making her an unloved orphan in the comics who gets mentorship from a clichéd street level crime boss puts her miles away from the person she is in the games, and I’m not sure they’ll manage to connect the dots. Also, having an untrained 14 year old kick the shit out of a group of men 3 times her size is just… ridiculous?

You can’t say that’s a decent characterisation when you also say that the comic is a “larger than life re-imagining” – so far, Diana’s character doesn’t make sense and they’ve lost what made her interesting as an opposite to 47. Why is she the cool, collected, puppet master in the shadows of the games, if she’s actually a kick ass assassin with impressive strength in the comics? Maybe it will be explained? I doubt it.

Hitman jumps around in it’s timeline, but it’s still fairly consistent. If you replay C:47 you’ll see that 47 isn’t instantly hired by the ICA, it’s “one year later” – which opens us up to some interesting possibilities in H6 as 47 appears to have had time on his own from the asylum before he meets Diana in the Prologue. So far, it makes sense. The rest of the games also follow a correct linear timeline except for Contracts, part of which takes place during Blood Money’s timeline.

The timeline issues I have with the comics are things like forgetting what age Diana is in the middle of issue 1 (she says she’s 14, and then later in the comic she says she’s 13) and then in issue 2, she says she’s been with Siva for only 2 weeks and she looks the same and is wearing the same clothes, but now we have skipped years ahead to 1989. That’s just lazy – and it’s not the only lazy thing. I’m going to freely point fingers if creators don’t even care about the basics.

Don’t forget that IO have openly stated that the story of the comics will play an “integral role” to the story of the games. If you check the credits, the comic also credits other members of the IO team, but give Vogt a story credit.

Well, of course there are. The story of the comics is supposed to be the story of the games too. And that’s why this “disconnect” is a problem. The novels and movies were “heavy-handed” “goofy” and “larger than life” as well, but who cares – they don’t affect the games. The comics will affect the games, so it’s a shame that they’re all over the place in terms of story and characterisation.

There’s so much to consider.


#512

Contracts was primarily a mix of two mission types:

  • Literally darker remakes of C47 missions
  • Missions that are steeped in revenge/assassination of joyful murderers

The Meat King and Beldingford Manor both sent 47 into an the den of people who joyfully torture and kill young, innocent people. The Butcher hacks up a little girl and the Beldingfords are planning on doing a fox hunt with a young man.

This was a very different theme to Codename 47 and Silent Assassin where the targets were terrible, but the main reason for 47 coming for them was their business. Being crime lords, arms dealers, conspirators, etc. It leans into more of the “grimdark” feel of 90s comics, World of Darkness, etc where it is about the darkest, bleakest version of our world imaginable rather than “the world but with super criminals”

She went to a very dark place when she wronged, she had no support from her family so she turned to someone who could deliver her revenge and fell in with a mentor who is refined and teaches her the virtue of meticulous planning: Sounds like a good origin story for a willful handler to me.

She’s not really that kick ass? She got her ass beaten as a lesson when she joined to remind her she’s not everything, and she has like thirty years to growing into being the Diana from the games. The comics really just explain how she got into a position to be recruited by a secretive assassin association.

Oh wow a whole year literally from when he left the asylum to when he was one of their top assassins doing impossible hits by taking out massive crime lords etc and proving he is the ultimate assassin? That doesn’t add up, like he had no time to establish himself etc. It’s like it was just a narrative convenience to get us right into the action.

Yes, I checked the credits, also the videos IO Interactive have released regarding the writing of the game itself. I can see the obvious inclusions requested by IO in the comic, along with some parts that seem odd but were likely not significant enough to bother with.

One of the novels was written in conjunction with one of the games - and they were intended to expand the canon. The movies were intended to represent the games in a new format.

And much like the comics, the games drove the media - the credits from the IO-Interactive crew are because they get to decide what is put into the comics - not so the comic forces them to change the games in future to suit. They’ve also been quite up front about how they adapt things to make the best product at the time.

Yet, so little being considered beyond people trying to one up one another to say how they think the comics are bad because… well someone decided they were bad.


#513

Just your average 14 year old girl, everyone.

I mean, if you think refined is dropping a surprise attack on a girl instead of training her, and then showing her how to put on make-up? Or if meticulous planning counts as “see the guy in the park? Go kill him.”

This trope has been done to death. Orphan, kick ass with no training, powerful connections for no reason – it’s already dull even if you ignore the inconsistencies. Plus, giving her an assassin backstory doesn’t make sense for a future handler. As I said before, what made her interesting was that she is different from 47. The H6 Prologue where Diana asked 47 what it felt like to take lives makes little sense now, although you could argue that she was asking for his perspective?

The character of Diana has always been the puppet master. It’s partly why I thought her previous backstory worked so well – she was upper class, wealthy, perhaps seduced by power, seeing the world in terms of black and white – it fit nicely with her character as someone who power plays behind the scenes. By getting her hands dirty in the comics it removes that detachment, and a street criminal as her mentor doesn’t expose her to the upper circles.

In the games, Diana has mostly been poised, calm and refined – something that fit with her previous background of private school, Oxford and Yale. Of course she’s only 14 in the comics (or 17, if we’ve skipped to 1989 now) but your upbringing has a bearing on how you speak and act as an adult. So something drastically changed between the comics and the games, and as the comics are supposed to tie to the games… this is a problem. Plus there’s only 10 years between the second issue of the comic and the Prologue of Hitman 6 – 1989 to 1999.

I’m not sure what you mean by this. Isn’t the reason the ICA were so intrigued by 47 was because he was an amazing assassin? That’s true in C:47 and H6. He had incredible skill, and thus he was recruited. I mean, why shouldn’t he be amazing? He spent the first 35 or so years of his life being trained?

Neither the novels or the movies were intended to affect the canon of the games. They’re just other versions, other media. So it really doesn’t matter that Katia exists, or Ort-Meyer was replaced by that other guy, or that 2007 47 was an orphan instead of a clone – because none of that will tie in with the games. I’ve never said that the comics will force IO to change the games, it’s the fact that the story of the comics is going to be the game canon that is the sad part.

And I haven’t even gotten over the Diana stuff enough to start on how the 47 and 6 story makes no sense based on the games so far.

I don’t know what it is that you think people are not considering, but even from an objective standpoint, this is bad writing. As Hitman? It is inconsistent, sloppy on details, out of character and packed with tired tropes. It’s a shame because I liked a lot of what Vogt did with H6, and those cutscene dialogues were fantastic.


#514

Like a Domino effect? Mildly insulting but I won’t fault you for it. I heard bad reviews but still read anyway and…well I didn’t really like it either. Feels like the story is just moving too damn fast. Jumping from point A to B to C in a matter of a single page turn. I suppose it has to since it’s a comic but that’s just not doing it any favors IMO. Thinking back though, my judgment may have been harsh - it is easy to criticize when you’re not the one writing it. Fresh and original ideas can be tough to come by.

I probably go with a revenge plot for Diana but at a much slower pace, but not change a whole lot with 47’s story so much as how it plays out. And also ditch Providence from the plot - sliding them in as the group behind it all is just too cheap for my liking. But other then that, there have definitely been much worse Hitman stories then this. All that said, I still don’t like it man. Sorry.


#515

So any degree of badassery beyond the “average” is super assassin level? No fourteen year old girl could threaten an businessman if she has a gun and he doesn’t?

The reason we see 47’s hits juxtaposed with hers is so we can stress: Diana has spunk and some ability, she is a far cry though from a true professional like 47.

I promise it all makes sense if you read the dialog and the whole comic rather than look at a few key panels and then rush to try to make a meme.

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See Diana’s a fourteen year old girl, she’s headstrong, moody, inexperienced but she has potential so her mentor wants to guide her but also to test her. So she gets the lesson (above), then the test:

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Because she is smart and ruthless, Diana does pretty well - but because she is still untrained and inexperienced, she makes some mistakes too. This is part of character development, the characters get an arc where they start as one thing and become another - the transition is what makes it interesting.

Yes, and the idea that Diana just appeared out of the ether like that is boring. That Diana had to become that person is pretty basic and the further she was from that person makes it the more intriguing and developmental. It’s a pretty basic and well established formula:

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Diana as the daughter of an ICA exec who was raised with a silver spoon in her mouth, then got a job because of nepotism is not really interesting and does nothing to explain her willingness to take risks with and for 47.

Diana as a scrappy girl who went on for a personal quest for revenge and found a mentor who showed her a better way, taught her to appear refined at all times, to plan, to understand the most powerful, etc is an actual story with plot twists, uncertainties, etc.

It also leads to a more interesting Diana since she has a wider variety of resources to draw upon: There’s the refined authority figure who is meticulous in her service to the ICA, but also the scrappy girl who knows that sometimes you have to roll your die and go it alone.

Shit, in the train cabin there’s two sides to her: There’s the Diana who is part of a powerful institution that provides politically neutral assassinations for hire, and there’s the Diana who lost her parents because they dared to stand up to a powerful institution. Which one refused to consider an alliance with Providence? Did she do it because of savvy business decisions, or sympathy for a fellow victim (The Shadow Client)?

Further more, when Providence confronted her about his history and she brushed it over has she worked out that 47 was the actual assassin that killed her family, or were they testing that so they could drop an emotional bomb on her at a later date? Some time when her support to 47 might be critical.

He had perfect genetics, years of training, etc but he’d never set foot outside of the asylum. The dude can shoot great but he couldn’t even go tot he bathroom without asking like a weirdo, he had no experience planning his own hits, no references, no background, no money, etc. The idea that in one year he’d earned a place in the ICA where they’d put him against an established crime lord was frankly, ridiculous. (And nobody cared, because it was never intended to be closely scrutinized - again, moving the plot along and getting to the killing people, because it’s a video game about killing people).

He arrives at Hong Kong and announces it’s “not my kind of place” but also is weirded out when Lei Ling gives him a thankyou/goodbye kiss. He’s somehow adapted perfectly in every way he needs to do his job, but not in some other basic ways… in one year!

Well the novels were supposed to - but they didn’t because IO-Interactive later chose to ignore them, the movies were never supposed to but had the obvious potential to influence them (the same way the X-Men movie influenced the design of characters in the comics).

Personally I think the saddest part of “canon” is that 47 can’t even remember the basics about how he did the most important hits in his life, even only a few years after he did them!

It’s almost like the people making the stuff aren’t writing them specifically to your unreasonable expectations that they match whatever assumptions you’d made to date.

More specifically The Anchoring Effect

I agree that, particularly in comparison to the games, the pace is kind of erratic and there they’re skipping over a lot of stuff that I would have liked them to explore (especially in comparison to say, the Dishonored comic The Wyrmwood Deceit, but largely that strikes me more as a budget and timing issue.

It’s certainly nowhere near as rushed as the comic to promote the Agent 47 movie was (that was some baffling shit), but it’s a lot to take in when you’re used to Hitman stories emerging slowly through gameplay, then replaying to find other factors etc.

However given IO Interactive is now an independent and probably have to make sure these are all released in time before the next Season - it doesn’t seem too unreasonable that they’re rushing it along.

It felt heavy handed to me too initially then I remembered that Season 1 ends with the Shadow Client revealing he had a similarly over controlled upbringing to 47 - so I suspect part of the comics goal is to set up the idea of how Providence actually does their dirty work if not through the ICA.


#516

She’s not just threatening a businessman with a gun. Did you not see her take down muscular thugs in an alley, even breaking one of their wrists?

I mean if we’re going to get into the issues with 47’s hits, who now apparently kills for fun… we have a whole new area of problems. But, no. The reason we have these hits and 47’s hits is because it’s a comic book relying on action to tell its story. If the point was actual juxtaposition of their characters, then their characters would actually be, you know, juxtaposed.

I have read it. You’re getting a bit condescending, to be honest. The “planning” in the above panel is literally waiting for the guy to be in the park in the day. That’s it. “Go show me what you can do” – there’s no meticulous plan there.

And there’s the problem. If the comics manage to connect who she is now to who she will be in 10 years, then great. I said that in my first reply to you. But, I doubt that will happen, because a lot of the details have been sloppy so far.

She wasn’t?

No?

We haven’t seen any of this in the comic. This is your personal opinion on where the comics will go from here. It’s not in the comics we have actually read so far. My complaints have been on what we have actually read so far.

It’s made clear in the train that her only interest in aligning herself with Providence was 47. He is her weak spot, and they knew it. Just like we had the “weak spot” foreshadowing convo in The Key cutscene.

It’s clear from the comics that this is going to happen. At some point in the games, it will be revealed that “it was 47 all along!” shock, gasp, he killed her parents, oh my – now his life hangs in the balance, will she betray him? dun dun dun

I’m honestly still not getting what you mean here. This was the whole point of 47’s character, he seems so naive and innocent in so many ways in C47 because of the asylum, and the only thing he does know how to do perfectly is to kill. We see this naivety and detachment in H6 Prologue as well. Which is why the comics really throw this even further out of whack because according to them, 47 and 6 have been sent out on plenty of assignments? By Ort-Meyer who is… running a contract agency? But they also have the freedom to take on freelance assignments without him knowing? Even though they have remote explosives embedded in their spines?? And they are deemed flight risks but they can come and go as they please and hide their drugs in drawers without anyone checking if they’re taking them? And all of their “brothers” are just as good as them, so 47 isn’t special anymore at all?

These are just some of the inconsistencies, by the way. And if you want to argue that this is a reboot so it’s fine to change the lore, then that’s exactly what I’ve been saying all along. IO should come out and just say HITMAN is a reboot if they’re rebooting the lore. If they are not rebooting the lore, then… none of this comic story makes any sense?

Fingers crossed they do the same with the comics.

IO love a good plot hole.

I’m sorry if you think consistency in plot and characterisation is an unreasonable expectation. This story relies on cheap tropes. Maybe you want to stand out with a different opinion, but so far, it’s just bad writing.


#517

Just read the second issue and I am enjoying it so far. Again nothing groundbreaking but character development is good.

To say my catchphrase once more: More HITMAN™ is always good in my book.


#518

I did, she sucker punched them after feigning weakness, then when she had to fight similar thugs on equal footing where they were aware she got her ass kicked. You however, did not limit your montage selection to that one scene, you instead implied it was unreasonable for her to have an advantage over an unarmed businessman when she had a gun. I am not sure how you felt that made sense.

But they are juxtaposed, I just covered that. 47 is a well oiled machine who is struggling with trying to escape the control of his manipulative masters, he is indifferent to murder and death. Diana is a driven but unguided revenge seeker who can do harm to strangers fine, but struggles with the actual killing.

It’s like the point was to tell Diana the lesson, then test how well she took it on. Diana could have followed the guy, scoped him out, reported back and advised since his office wasn’t going anywhere - she’d make a plan. Diana did not, she made a plan up on the fly because she is impulsive - but her improvised plan was pretty good because she’s smart and determined.

I’m not seeing much on details here, rather there is just general statements that it’s not working because the plot isn’t going how you wanted it to.

Diana and the ICA are not actually the same thing. 47 is Diana’s personal link to Providence, but as an agent of the ICA she has an obligation to look out for their interests - including alliances and feuds with other power groups like Providence. Diana states she won’t ally with Providence because they cannot be trusted, then they break out the 47 stuff.

See this is inherently part of the problem with your claims on these things: You are announcing everything is a foregone conclusion. The comic won’t provide a resolution, the plot twist won’t actually be a twist, etc. If you’re gong to assume all that why bother playing or reading anything?

There’s a variety of possibilities:

  • Providence may drop the data in Diana’s file to try to get her to kill 47 the same way 47 can kill Soders via the surgeon
  • Providence may wait until a turning point then want another meeting to discuss it with her
  • It may be used as a piece of characterization, to show Diana’s level of dettachment/professionalism that she found out and never brought it up
  • It may come out as part of revealing more of 47’s backstory and lead to an awkward moment with 47 and Diana if happens mid mission that compromises the ICA ability to help you

That’s off the top of my head and I don’t work in a writer room.

See above

He’s fully socially functional and confident in Prologue, an entirely different person to how he is at the start of Codename 47. He can fake multiple roles in the training exercises and put on more convincing performances than that ICA stand-ins.

Yes - hence why when 47 arrives at the ICA he is experienced and expert in every single area of assassination, better than anyone they’ve ever had before. Ort-Meyer isn’t running an assassination agency, he’s using the clones as soldiers for Providence - which could easily slotted into the original story since nobody really investigated much of his background beyond he was in the French Foreign Legion.

Again this is not “it contradicts” it is “I assumed different”

You remember in the original game they disguise as people of different races and nobody notices right? Also that Ort-Meyer had Agent 17 running freelance somehow in Silent Assassin 2? Also the original fluff mentioned all these Foreign Legion trainers who didn’t have room exist in the facility?

Consistency and world building have never been strong points of Hitman… because it’s a game about a super assassin with a tattoo on the back of his head who does amazing stuff in a larger than life world than focuses on super-criminals and ultra-espionage. Kind of like James Bond, only without jingoism.

Never meant to imply she was, rather this is a critical tool (best term constantly disputed) where one considers alternative options so as to better understand the author’s own choice.

A story where a all capable and meticulous Diana is taken under her mentor’s wing, told that planning is critical to success and then just continues to be capable and meticulous has no arc. A story where Diana is helpless the entire way until she is partnered with 47 both diminishes the character and creates a massive plothole where the ICA had no reason to hire Diana.

Therefore, the only viable origin story is Diana is some mix of traits she has now, and traits she no longer has. The writers in this case have gone with her being scrappy, impulsive and mouthy because it gives them the opportunity to tell how she changed from being that.

No, changed from being that, not necessarily changed into exactly who she is now or who she is at the start of HITMAN - it does not need to be the be all and end all of her character, it just has to be an arc in her character development. Expecting it to cover everything would be essentially expecting it to cover everything from 14 year-old Diana to Diana in the train… that’s a lot of comic.

So again, what were you really expecting?


#519

I was pointing out how she high kicked him in the face. You can almost hear the hi-yaa! I’m not sure how I’d fare in an alley with against three big guys with a steel bar up my sleeve, but you seem to think it’s completely reasonable for an untrained 14 year old to do just fine. It’s so goofy and over the top, and does nothing but serve to water down the character so she fits the “troubled orphan” trope. There’s no meat here, it’s a disappointment.

What could be interesting is if Diana doesn’t go through with any killing at all. If she finds herself hungry for revenge but without the stamina to actually take it for herself, then it would make sense for her to progress into the role of a handler, where she can easily manipulate and control the field of play without having to be the person doing the dirty work. But that could have been very nicely introduced instead of giving me some karate kid who’s current personality is at complete odds with who she is supposed to be. I am waiting to see if they fill the gap – whereas you seem to think there is no gap to be filled and this is a natural progression.

You said that the whole point of the scene was to teach the value of “meticulous planning” and now you say the whole point of the scene was to let Diana improvise? Which is it? My point was that she was not being taught to plan at all, Siva just feeds her some line about planning for her legacy and then we jump to “there’s the guy in the park, off you pop.”

It’s not working because it’s full of plot holes and clichés.

That’s exactly what I said, so I don’t get your point here. Her only interest in aligning herself with Providence is 47.

We’ve been told the point of these comics is to expand the story (retcon the story, let’s be honest) and to directly feed into events in Season 2. So, yes, I very much doubt we’ll see a resolution in the comics, because then they wouldn’t be building towards anything in Season 2. It will be the game that will have to provide the resolution, and in a way that does not impede players who have not read the comic. Therefore, it is entirely likely, if not probable, that this particular plot point will come out in the games as it is easy to introduce without the player having needed to read the comic.

So you can see why I’m disappointed by a poor plot in the comics, as it will directly feed into the games. Fingers crossed that I’m wrong and the comic will resolve itself into a neat little bow so I don’t have to revisit any of this in S2.

Absolutely, 47 is excellent at social stealth. We see him be awkward whenever he has to be himself. That’s one role he’s never seemingly gotten a grip on.

Let’s go back to C47. We have 47 locked in his room and secured down to his bed. We have Ort-Meyer constantly praising 47 as being ready, as being the best, as being perfect – he has been carefully selected etc. We see 47 “escape” at the first given opportunity, as Ort-Meyer watches him go, just as he planned.

Contrast this with the story the comics gives us. 47 can leave whenever he wants, and even has the freedom to take secret freelance missions. 47 is not the only extraordinary clone. In S2, 17 could never match 47, he was a lesser brother. We don’t know how Sergei got a hold of 17. 47 thought he had killed all his brothers, he says so himself. In the comics, all the clones are great. They have all been told they are “perfection personified”.

Ort-Meyer using the clones as soldiers for Providence – you honestly don’t see how this craps all over his original character? Ort-Meyer and the other 4 fathers originally started their experiments (well, the 4 fathers funded while OM experimented) as a means of getting their own little clone army, while getting the side bonus of extending their own lives with harvested clone organs. 47 was supposed to be the epitome of the experimentation. Remember OM’s letters, claiming that “47 is mine” – if he had a whole bunch of equally perfect and capable clones then who cares?

OM’s goal was soldiers without free will as well, which is why he tells 47 he has replaced him with the superior 48, and is planning to kill 47 as he sees him as too easily led by sentiment. But in the comics, we have 47 and 6 who have both already run away to the farm – maybe after that OM decided to put explosives in their spines. But, if the OM’s motivations remained the same as they were in C:47, then he would have needed to go back to the drawing board at that exact moment.

What’s even worse is that OM and the 4 fathers vision is now completely watered down to them being mere middle men for the big baddie Providence. OM as a figure no longer carries the same weight if Providence were the ones to order a catalogue of clone soldiers. In C47, OM goes on and on about how he accomplished this all by himself, that people thought he was crazy, that he is above God in his creations. None of that makes sense now if he was just doing a job for Providence. Never mind the fact that he was already sending his precious 47 out on run of the mill assassination for them, while C47 shows us that OM had a very particular reason for keeping 47 tucked away until the right moment?

You can pretend I’m making assumptions if you like, but I’m actually just pointing out all the inconsistencies.

I’m talking about getting consistency based on their source material. Or, you know, even consistency between the same two pages of the comic would be nice.

And that means we will have to wait to see if they do tell us how she changed from that. And as I have said, I am not optimistic because the storytelling has been so sloppy already. At this rate, I wouldn’t be surprised if we end up getting a montage where Siva takes Diana dress shopping and teaches her to “talk proper” like she’s Eliza Doolittle – even though Siva can’t exactly “talk proper” either.

We’ve already moved from 14 year old Diana to 17 year old Diana in the space of one issue, so just 10 more years to go to the H6 Prologue. But yes, I do very much doubt they will wrap it up to that point, because I doubt they will connect the dots to the character they have created in the comics and the character in the games. Unless we get that bloody montage.

A story that doesn’t rely on cheap tropes and does not butcher the characters and their dynamics. Same thing I’ve been saying since the start. You’ve already said yourself that you don’t think it’s a good story, so I’m not sure what you’re fighting me on other than you think I should enjoy the wacky action sequences and inconsistency because you think Hitman is always wacky and inconsistent.


#520

You know it’s pretty standard for girls to do ballet and gymnastics into their early teens right? Also that this is a comic primarily about a super clone who can disguise himself as anyone of any race or profession by putting on their clothes and having people ignore he’s a huge white guy with a barcode on the back of his bald head?

This is the first bit of speculation you’ve gone through and it:

  1. Is perfectly possible with the comic elements presented to date, in complete contradiction to your claims and
  2. Wouldn’t make much sense since if she doesn’t have the stomach for killing she wouldn’t make much of a handler for a agent who is so ruthless even the ICA’s once top agent fears him

Are you? Because just up there you’re claiming you know what’s going to happen.

I said the whole point was to build a dramatic arc. Again. As above.

Excellent choices don’t make for drama. Diana just doing exactly what she’s told to and having no problems is a very boring story. I just finished a huge post about that.

The point is when Diana was a scrappy teenager trying to get revenge for her family, she was not the meticulous planner with nerves of steel and a poker face of champions that she is in the HITMAN game. If she was, there would be no arc, no drama and really boring story.

Literally the entire Hitman series is built upon plot holes and cliches, because it’s a story about a clone super assassin who does impossible things to facilitate cool things and homages to other cool things.

The primary reason Providence propose an alliance to the ICA are:

  1. They were both manipulated by the Shadow Client
  2. Providence is a mighty ally and a terrible enemy

Hence the lines at the end about how “He’s only a terrorist if you win.” and “We won a long time ago, this, this is maintenance.” Providence doesn’t come to Diana with a purely personal proposal because they know that she won’t be manipulated that easily and it’d be of literally zero interest to The Board of the ICA who had just approved the execution of one of their own members.

Retconning and expanding are not mutually exclusive, a popular reason for retconning is because trying to stick to the pre-established story can be very limiting and prevent expansion, particularly when the story was hastily jumbled together and was already retconning itself from the second chapter onward.

Where? Where specifically is he awkward? When he cockily tells Diana “So make it one.” when she comments that Forty-Seven isn’t a name? When he trades quips and lines with her about The Art of War?

If we read the letters on 47’s targets and play to the end we quickly deduce that:

  1. Ort-Meyer is a narcissistic liar, he lies to his business partners, his staff, his “sons” and himself
  2. Ort-Meyer never believed 47 to be particularly perfect, he sent him to eliminate the Fathers because they were pushing Ort-Meyer to deliver his army of perfect soldiers they had paid for - and he preferred to keep everything for himself
  3. The whole time 47 was out in the world, Ort-Meyer was working on his next batch of clones who he decided were far superior to 47

47 as the “perfect” clone was only introduced in Blood Money and then it was because only Ortmeyer had managed to create fully functional adult clones that did not have extremely limited lifespans (and issues such as albinonism). The Parchezzis are all excellent assassins and “perfect” but they have expiration dates and disabilities.


Leaving whenever you want never seems to work well for the property of the Hidden Hand.

Good. That gives them the opportunity to show what’s different about him compared to his many brothers.

This is a common thing in long running fiction called “escalation” and is a means to create drama when you have a character who is already established as the biggest fish in their pond. You expand the pond by essentially “leveling up” the character and unlocking the new content of bigger powers and conspiracies. In the Hitman games, this started in Codename 47 (remember Agent Smith in the asylum?).

At this point its less making assumptions and more re-writing the previous texts to fit your own headcanon.

Again, you talk a lot about this lack of consistency but the more you do so, the more your stance becomes inconsistent with the material you’re talking about. Perhaps less hyperbole and more consideration.

It would be a terrible story otherwise, so I’m not sure why you think stating this is a criticism of the comic.

You didn’t really read that very well, the point is Diana’s development doesn’t just stop when the comic ends. She has decades of life experiences, decisions, etc that are all “off screen” due to basic story telling and necessity that the audience doesn’t want to see the boring stuff.

The expectation that it’ll show Diana exactly as we know her at the end is extremely unreasonable.

That’s not an expectation, that’s just a cheap and unsubstantiated shot at the comic, which is what I’m fighting. Civilized discussion requires more than “lol it sucks” over and over.


#521

To be fair to @eeefaa this really isn’t true. All his points have been well rationalised and the conversation on the whole has been very civil.


#522

Just read the second volume, sadly so far the hole comic book run have been quite forgettable. Sloppy storyline, unexciting dialogue and forgettable characters. It seems very much like a tier 2 comic. I would like to see what Marvel or DC could do with a brand like Hitman.