Agent 47: Birth of the Hitman Comic Book


#523

I’m torn actually. I dislike the focus of the comic and how it envisions Diana as a whole,but @Jarbinger brought some solid points to the table. So did @eeefaa.
To be frank though,this comic in all of its aspects is not what a big portion of the community wants. It’s not “dark and gritty” (which seemed to be the desired atmosphere) nor spy-thriller. It’s more of an action envision of Hitman which is what makes me dislike it. Not as bad as the first one. I see bits of improvements. But it lacks polish and details (a guy falls to the ground because of corks and falls on a broken bottle that wasn’t there a second before. Lazy) and that is objective. It also is clearly not what the fans want and the customer is always right. Still,no doubt that a few have been influenced by the negative opinion of the loud majority of dislikers of this comic. But not all,and in the way I see it,not even a lot of them. Just some.
All in all,I see this comic as something unfitting to,at least,my personal views of Hitman. I hope all it does is improve,hopefully with less convoluted and lazy tropes and more clever writing. Here’s hoping.


#524

OK, you’ve lost credibility with this argument. I was a ballerina for 9 years and I took tae kwon do. Still doesn’t mean I can take down 3 big guys in an alley or drop kick a guy in his face like it’s no big deal. And that doesn’t make me the minority at 14 lol. Face it, you are desperately trying to rationalise action sequences in a comic that are purely there to be action sequences in a comic. No deep thought went into this.

Oh, really? The woman behind the scenes, who always focuses on her own sense of honour, who appears fascinated by 47 and asks him curiously “What does it feel like, to take lives?” – it doesn’t make much sense to you that she isn’t an assassin herself?

Once again, what makes Diana and 47 so interesting is how they are opposites to each other, both operating on a different level in the world of assassination. Turning Diana into a teenage assassin is boring, and takes away from the character’s previous personality and her dynamic with 47.

You’re the one who keeps saying that everything is going to be explained in the comic and connect perfectly with the game – and I’m saying that I doubt it because what I’ve read so far has been very bad.

You said “fell in with a mentor who is refined and teaches her the virtue of meticulous planning” – but if you want to take that back now, it’s okay.

Do you honestly think that would be the only alternative to the cliché that it is right now? Stories can be interesting without relying on cheap tropes, you know.

Your only argument so far is “you can’t complain about a bad story and sloppy writing because the Hitman games have plot holes too!”

They come to her with a business proposal, she tells them where they can stick it, so they give her a picture of little 47 which she is clearly conflicted about, and then the Constant is delighted as he knows her silence means a confirmation that more knowledge about 47’s origins has piqued her interest. Once again, Diana will make 47 her priority. It wouldn’t be the first time she put him first. You can clearly tell from the scene that no deal would have been made if the Constant had not intrigued her with the prospect of knowing more about 47.

How? Do you mean Agent 17? Because most people’s problems with retcon is that it usually throws out established lore in favour of a rewriting, which effectively reboots the lore entirely. Whereas Agent 17 does not pose this problem for us, as him being alive does not force a new interpretation of previous events. Even 47 is surprised by him in the game – if his existence was a retcon, then 47 would not have needed to be surprised as the events of C47 wouldn’t matter.

You’ve already stated that 47 is supremely awkward, best noted in the line “I need to use the bathroom” – my entire point is that if the comics are rebooting the lore and making it so 47 was never like that (although at least we still see some of his confusion in the H6 Prologue) then why not come out and state that HITMAN is a reboot as well? But IO have been steadfastly saying it is not a reboot, and I was very happy to agree on that point until the comics threw that out the window with a whole new lore.

None of that addresses my points on OM’s character, his motivations and how slipping in Providence as the big baddie completely weakens the entire previous point of OM.

Exactly, so welcome to more inconsistencies. I’ve already stated how they ran away to the farm and were brought back to then possibly have their explosive chips implanted, but yet they still have the freedom to come and go as they please, not take their drugs and take on freelance contracts without anyone noticing. You literally just pointed out a plot hole that I’ve already mentioned.

It really seems like you’re grasping at straws now, because earlier you said that you thought it was too heavy-handed, but now you’ve switched to “umm, it’s creating drama”.

Like, where? Every point I’ve made has been about previous lore versus new lore.

Nice dodge. If you want to pretend that my criticism of inconsistencies (even in the same issue!) is just hyperbole, then perhaps you’d only care about inconsistencies if all the characters were suddenly green for no reason. Although I’m sure you’d find a way to rationalise that too.

Because so far, it’s been sloppy.

So you agree that the comics will not be able to align the character of Diana in the comics with the character of Diana in the games? But you don’t agree that it’s because they’ve created an out of character version of her already?

Wanting a story that doesn’t rely on cheap tropes is a cheap shot? How on earth?

If that’s how you want to play it, then I’ll say civilised discussion requires more than saying “no, it’s great” over and over – but both you and I know that’s not what we’ve been doing.


#525

Mate why the trolling?


#526

Whoa, that’s…a vast over generalization. Maybe it’s standard where you’re from?

I know you enjoy a good debate but I don’t suppose you and eeefaa can agree to disagree?


#527

It’s hardly trolling to point out that all Diana would need to deliver that kick is significant leg strength and flexibility, which is not standard but also not uncommon in teenage girls. She is not a super assassin with extensive training and @eeefaa desperately needs her to be so the comic will be “bad”, she is just someone who knows if you kick someone in the head really hard it will knock them down.

I mean see, here he’s immediately switched the goal post from “able to kick a guy in the head” to “able to beat up three guys in an alleyway” and intentionally disregarding the other aspects such as her element of surprise, willingness to risk literally everything, and keeping a steel pipe up her sleeve.

When faced with this kind of obtuseness it does no good to entertain their non-points. Particularly when they’re bringing nothing to the conversation.

I mean look at this, now everyone who has ever killed is apparently a super assassin who operates with at optimum efficiency and has no weaknesses. Further up: It’s apparently unrealistic that teenage with a girl can threaten a man who does not have on. These are points being announced as fact and attack at myself and the creators, then not being withdrawn when it’s pointed out how absurd they are: This is not contributory to civilized conversation.

He’s also completely disregarding that Diana’s sense of “honour” has never been opposed to killing, rather it’s things like remaining politically neutral, ensuring the contracts are “just” (ie bad people doing bad things get killed), that the ICA does not exploit children through nightmarish experiments, that when the ICA accepts a job - the ICA finishes the job, etc.

Even the most casual Hitman fan knows Diana has never batted an eye at 47’s willingness to kill, nor has she ever had a problem manipulating their enemies. She has her own rule book, 47 has his own rule book. That’s part of what makes them interesting individually and as a duo.

This kind of trying to reinvent history (both the contents of the comic and the posts in the thread) is essentially preformative nonsense that encourages toxicity in the forum.

It’s either that or he doesn’t realise that comics consist of multiple pages and multiple events…No, when he’s just putting on a performance hoping to get more likes there’s no point in a charitable response unless it’s an opportunity to broaden the conversation into something interesting - he’s only trying to put on a show.

It’s pretty standard in a lot of places, particularly white-bread America with “ideal” families who want to impress upon their children the importance of how special they are and how much potential they have. You know, the kind of family that it appears Diana had before she lost her parents. Ballet in particular would have fitted in with people’s perception of her having a cultured background.

But if her having done either of these seems to exotic for it to be believable the ability to jump up and kick an unsuspecting stranger in the face could also be gained from being sent to karate classes, cheerleading, running hurdles, ice skating, or enjoying jumping up and down on a trampoline a lot.

A single jumping kick is not an exotic skill, nor is it really anything that implicates combat training if you want to get into deep analysis since no serious combat focused martial art uses it. Lots kinds think they’re cool though.

Why should that be up to me? He already stated his opinion long ago and hasn’t really expanded on it or contributed anything.

Honestly at this point it’s really more about providing interesting content for other people who may read the thread so that when the next issue comes out the conversation can be more civilized and more complex than “lol I made a meme, that means this comic is bad”

Plus since i have a genuine interest in story telling etc I know lots of stuff I like to share and a sincere hope if we can actually get to talking about the actual content of the comic there’ll be some reasonable discourse started.

Okay, so on to the other guy.

Almost, what is interesting in the juxtapositions between Diana and 47, ie that they are alike in many ways and different in other ways. The similarities are the important contrast to the differences.

For example: Diana is not turning into a teenage assassin who kills because a man in an office tells her, she is going on a revenge tour for her family because she’s been unable to grieve and left to her obsession by negligent foster family. Once her targets are dead, Diana will have to find a new reason for living since her work has a definite end goal.

47 on the other hand is a professional assassin who kills because a man in an office tells him to, he could potentially do this until the day he dies since as long as Providence exists they will always be using murder as a tool to maintain and establish power. 47 has a very attentive, very controlling “father” and wants to find a new reason for living and thus must find a way to break out of this cycle and take control of his life.

The Hitman brand is a promise of many cliches and cheap tropes, reinvented into a new interpretation and professional polish. You’ll get lots of things that you know are fun because they’re familiar, but reinvented with an equal mix of goofy and intrigue.

There are of course, many alternatives to this particular story that could have been provided - but based off the information you’ve provided they would all be terrible because they would lack a reason to get invested and simply be a list of “and then”, when generally speaking story telling should be (as the comic) is a mix of “but”, “therefore” and “meanwhile, back at the ranch”:

A story that starts with Diana just as you imagined her and a clear path set in the first issue as to how she’s going to become Diana from train has no point of intrigue or investment. This is part of the reason why Contracts was so dull from a narrative perspective, most of the levels were recycled and the story was that they were in 47’s fever dreams: Nothing the player did or didn’t do would effect the meta-plot from the cut scenes in any meaningful way until the final mission.

If you set unrealistic expectations, get upset at creators for not meeting them and then put on a performance because you didn’t enjoy a thing immediately then you shouldn’t be surprised if someone points out you’re not making much sense and perhaps your unreasonable expectations are the cause of your problems.

Do point to where I said it’s great and without flaw, I look forward to seeing it, especially as once this thread gets back to civil conversation there’s quite a few points I would like to discuss with people who are interested in honest critical discourse.

You could be one of them if you can make the topic shift. For example, do you feel that the comic would have worked better if it’d shown Diana’s research in seeking out her mentor figure or do you think it’s more in line with the Hitman formula to do the “intro and then reveal” approach? Do you think the combination of 6 saying 47 will enjoy killing Nazis, combined with 47 later claiming he doesn’t care about if they’re a “good man” or have money is meant to be a character growth arc or hat tip to the conventions of the series (“get money”, “don’t kill non-target, especially not non-combatant targets”)? Do you feel that revealing the face of Diana’s mentor was a missed opportunity to hint to the old days of Diana’s faceless mystique or would that have been overly complicated from a composition and communication perspective?

Because personally I have mixed feelings on the comic to date, but they’re due to more complex issues than it doesn’t match the fan fiction in my head. It’s things like whether Diana would have been more interesting if motivated by ambition or principle rather than a personal tragedy? Is starting right in the origin rather than including an introduction as the prelude harming the over-pacing the story or is that more a problem caused by Diana meeting her mentor on the first go? Did they miss a major opportunity by revealing it to be a Diana origin story at the start, rather than making it a plot twist late in the story?

But really my main complaint with it is the world feels very bland with the exception of Pripyat the targets are people we are told about, rather than we see instigating their death and the world is very monochrome both in the faces of the people in it and the general design. Nowhere has any of the grandiosity that Hitman levels have had and too much of it feels very design by deadline with simple layouts except when specified.

Hence why I think it’d benefit everyone to stop disbelieving that a teenager with a gun can be threatening.


#528

Wow guys, I almost read everything that has been said from the start of this thread, and also the White’s view on all of this, and all I can say is… wow.

I am not taking sides in this argument-throwing thing but I honestly think (as a Hitman fan for almost 15 years and countless playing/replaying/lore reading etc.) that this comic is bollocks. I never read the books just because it would make my picture on the games and the lore worse.

I am staying true to the games, and games only as the movies were also very bad Hitman movies. This comic is too much in my opinion as I think if they made the comic, they should make it like a hole-filler and not a stupid reboot in times when season 1 of the new game is finished and we are waiting for the season 2. Bad timing.

Also, we are expecting a TV Show Hitman. Well, if they screw that one like this comic, I will be very dissapointed. I don’t expect much of that one, but they said it will stay true to the games, so maybe we will see a great one. So long as it does not make ties with this comic and represent games I am fine.

You don’t need to agree with me, but games should be canon and that is it (maybe tv show if it ties closely to the games), but those two movies, books and now this thing of a comic? No, please, thanks!


#529

Well, it’s really up to both of you. No offence, but the debate kind of feels like it’s starting to go in circles.

Not that I’m trying to answer for eeefaa, but these questions caught my interest. As for her being motivated by ambition, principle or tragedy, I go with a mixture of all of the above. The fact that it’s her origin story doesn’t feel like a missed opportunity IMO. Considering many fans have been playing since Codename 47 back in 2000, I say we’re overdue in fact. As for the flow of the story, I think it would’ve been better to start off with Diana just living with her family with us as the readers getting to know them.

I change her mentor(s) to being her parents, mostly her father as someone not only she loves but also looks up to and aspires to be. Spend a bit of time with them before the tragedy and revenge starts. Some may consider that to be boring but there’s no way to please everyone and there’s no sense in trying. Besides, it’s not so much about the story you tell as it is the way you tell it. Also I would separate both 47 and Providence from her story. Having them all connected is way too easy for my liking. Instead of losing both parents, I say let it just be her father and have her mother still play a role in her development. I’d say more but I’ll spend the whole day going into the details so I’ll stop here for now.


#530

I think jarbringer is just over rationalizing. The comic has a dumb cliche story that simply destroys hitman’s uniqueness, or whatever made hitman’s lore unique.


#531

You’ve really backed yourself into a corner of having to defend the comic, which you have previously admitted to being “erratic”, with “goofy over the top violence” and “ridiculous clichés” – you already know it’s terrible, but because you’ve entered into a debate about it, you’re now going to argue that Diana being a 14 year old badass makes perfect sense?

Just have another look at those panels again, and tell me how you think that’s a totally reasonable expectation from your average 14 year old, because you reckon she must be flexible. That kind of kick, and that kind of takedown in the alley are not things that someone can do because they learned a few pas de deux, and the fact that you want to make it make sense is laughable in itself, when you already know that the comic has action sequences like that purely for entertainment value, not sense. No, she does not have “extensive training” so her portrayal here is bull.

Plus, you’ve been adamant that “assuming” things is wrong, so you can’t assume she has ballet and gymnastics training. It’s my personal opinion that Diana probably did do ballet based on how she carries herself in the games, and the fact that her family were wealthy (although not anymore by the look of the comics). Either way, it’s a headcanon right now. But even if she did, it doesn’t equate to the action sequences we’ve seen.

Plus, this doesn’t even touch on all the other plot holes and inconsistencies present in the comic.

This has been exactly my point! So making Diana a killer too completely takes away from this! It’s like you agree with me but at this point you don’t want to admit it. The dynamic between 47 and Diana has been one of my main points all along. Making Diana a child assassin takes away from her contrasting role and contrasting life. Even contrasting their different reasons for assassination doesn’t carry the same weight as properly contrasting them as coming from two different worlds altogether, which is what makes their game dynamic interesting.

How am I reinventing history? All of my points have been about poor storytelling and original lore versus new lore, whereas your points have been that the comic is goofy but we can’t complain that the lore deserved better.

If anyone’s putting on a show here, it’s you. You have completely ignored the problems with this comic, problems you have already admitted exist, in order to have an argument. You have ignored the inconsistencies I have pointed to, both by trying to say that Hitman is always inconsistent and by making your own assumptions with no basis.

I can only assume you were hoping that people didn’t like the comic because they thought they shouldn’t – but people are capable of making up their own minds. Anyone who doesn’t like it has given their reasons very clearly. But that’s not been good enough for you, because you think people shouldn’t expect much world-building or consistency in the first place.

That’s why it was used in the comic. The action sequences are there to look cool, not to make sense. Just like in the Hitman movies. This comic is more akin to the movies. Maybe you think the movies are a good representation of Hitman as well, I don’t know.

You might want to re-read every one of my replies to you, in that case. I don’t know why you’re pretending that I haven’t made valid points, unless that’s how you like to win arguments.

I literally didn’t even make a meme. You’re inventing again. All of my points have been based on the facts.

…you have a genuine interest in story telling and know lots of stuff. And you think this story is good? But you already said the story is full of “ridiculous clichés”? I mean, you can enjoy a cliché if you want, we all have our guilty pleasures. But don’t pretend it’s good story telling because you want to say you “know lots of stuff”.

Exactly. That’s why this clichéd version that is riddled with plot holes and inconsistencies is not up to par.

I never said that. Re-read my previous replies.

A consistent and well-structured narrative is not an unrealistic expectation.

Like, where did I ever say the gun was not a threat? Once again, you deflect by making stuff up. We were talking about her karate skills.

Not at all, because the very problem is her having this mentor in the first place. In fact, the original lore for Diana gave us some really intriguing possibilities that could have been fleshed out – and as Vogt was involved in Absolution too, I’m surprised he decided to scrap previous lore in favour of what the comic creators have come up with. Or perhaps they are of the notion that Hitman fans will appreciate action over depth.

In the original lore, Diana had a wealthy, patrician upbringing – which really fed into the idea of her becoming this character we see in the games “a first class mind in an upper class skull”. She was said to have the “habits, tastes and prejudices” of someone of her class, which puts her in the perfect position to see herself above other people, even above the law. It fits her character to be a person who has always been brought up in privilege and love, to be able to manipulate and use people, and to have them killed without worry or concern.

Contrast this to a girl who lost both her parents to contract killers. That person would be far less likely to become a handler, willingly sending an assassin out to rob other people of their families. But game Diana doesn’t care, because game Diana sees losing lives as a necessary cost to a greater picture. Her priorities are only ever shown to be 47 and the ICA, and while it would be nice to explore other sides of her character, putting her out of character in ludicrous situations is not the way to go.

In the previous lore, her father died when she was just 14 as well. She went through a troubled time at this point in her life too, with her grades slipping. The ICA have her father’s death certificate and the exact date he died (they don’t for Emma) – this is intriguing. We don’t see them with her sister’s death certificate. Was her father’s death as a result of foul play? That could serve as an interesting opening to a studious and inquisitive Diana investigating further into the criminal underworld without needing to have both our main characters hurtling through parentless dramatics. Particularly if it led her to see the ICA as a necessary evil.

In previous lore, she was first flagged by the ICA when she was in school in Switzerland. At the infamous Institut le Rosey, of all places. What did she do there to make her stand out? As she was recruited for her superior skills in computer science and intellect, it’s sad that the only thing to make her stand out in the comic is drop kicking a guy in the face.

Diana’s current comic backstory does not make sense with the motivations her character will need to have to become an ICA handler later on. Something else will need to happen to change her character’s motivations again. As the point of the comic is supposedly to develop and expand on what we already know, I’m disappointed they didn’t take this chance, but instead went for some dramatic, over the top action for the sake of it.

47, who told us that killing seemed “random” and “disordered” is now shown to be having fun with it now that the pills have worn off. This is so far removed from the stoic 47 we know. It’s been debated many times in the past if 47 enjoys his job, and it’s clear from the games, particularly SA and BM, that he doesn’t enjoy it. He just does it, because it’s all he knows. Plus, all of 47 and 6’s antics together are not only inconsistent with previous lore, but fly in the face of common sense if they are supposed to be such prized assets.

Exactly. Because this project does not feel like a work of love for the lore, but a need for $$$


#532

To be fair, we are over generalizing a bit when talking about the lore. We’re picking and choosing various things we like from the lore while dismissing the things we don’t. For instance, the ICA files on Diana is probably one of the very few story bits I did like from Absolution while the rest is forgettable. When you say the lore, I think you mean the story of the games from Codename 47 to Blood Money, only certain bits of Absolution, then World of Assassination. Seeing as how Absolution more or less failed, it’s easy to understand why Vogt decided against continuing that storyline.


#533

To be honest, when I say the previous lore, I really do mean everything that’s been established up to this point, from C47 to Absolution. And H6 too of course, although it’s been muddied as to whether or not it’s a reboot I think, as the lore is being rebooted in the comic and the games from H6 to Season 2 and 3 are to take it as the new lore.

For me, I personally think it’s been quite easy to pull the story together from C47 all the way to H6. But the new lore in the comics raises so many inconsistencies that it surely can only be a reboot of the lore entirely.


#534

I suppose it depends on what you expect and have enjoyed over time, personally I was always a fan of Diana’s mystique - that feeling of never knowing who she really was or where she was. She could be down the street, in a hotel on the other side of the world, on a super-yacht, etc. But I can also understand why some people want to know more about her.

I do agree that it would probably have helped a lot with establishing the impact of the tragedy if they’d shown us some of Diana’s life prior to the incident, so we could actually see how she changed rather than just have to infer.

Pretty sure it still has a super assassin clone with a barcode on the back of his head, super criminals, etc. It would probably be better to specify what unique aspects of the lore you’re attached to.

Dude, teenagers with guns can threaten adults. Accept it and move on.

As someone who was a teenager in the 90s, and vividly remembers the latter half of the 80s, I feel I would have noticed if teenage girls in the 80s were physically incapable to the extent it would break the genre for one to be able to have the ability where they could hurt someone with an iron pipe. She’s doing fast strikes on unprepared opponents, she doesn’t need to be strong, she doesn’t need to have conditioned knuckles, she just needs speed and ruthlessness.

If you think the comic is bad you’re going to shit when you find out about the games.

Like did you see that bit at the start of Silent Assassin where 47 phones in to the ICA and he and Diana talk like it’s normal when C47 established they only ever communicate in encrypted emails? Or what in Contracts where 47 is just back to working for the ICA like nothing happened and he completely misremembers a bunch of his previous hits? Or what about in Blood Money where they retconned the details of Contracts and suddenly decided that the ICA reports to the Queen of Denmark? Or what about Absolution where they retconned literally everything from Blood Money and made the ICA have their own weird cloning project and Diana was back to being a mook, and when she was trying to go to ground she rented a ridiculous super-mansion?

They do come from two different worlds… the comic stresses that quite a lot by juxtaposing their youth, surroundings, relationships with authority figures, relationships with peers, etc. Meanwhile you’re getting angry over an event not yet present in the comic because you insist it’s the (apparently singular) distinction.

This for instance, in the actual original lore - Diana was a name at the bottom of emails the emails where 47 received his briefing information. The lore you are referring to was added as part of the promotional campaign for Absolution, the fifth game in the series and one that retconned a lot of previous lore (such as Diana inheriting the top position at the ICA and reporting directly to the Queen of Denmark).

This is particularly off putting in this case since Absolution received a massive backlash by many people who felt that the game was a “mainstream cash grab” and not made out of love of the Hitman world or the lore - particularly since it was tonally very different. One of the ways it was tonally very different: for example the reason it’s the source of this “lore” is it is the game that shattered Diana’s mystique.

The lore you refer to is not long running and well established, it is literally stuff that was added for the previous game - which is to many the black sheep of the Hitman family. Framing this as “original” lore gives it a false sense of reverence and importance, and creates the fiction that it is a long running traditional part of the lore when it’s really relatively new and not even necessarily permanently adopted - after all Diana looks different to how she did in Absolution.

You included it in your montages of pics that proved that Diana was too badass to be a fourteen year old girl. Perhaps you should have curated that more carefully before rushing in to try to be condescending. Just a thought.

Just like the games too, or did you never try to poison Lee Hong?

I think the story has problems, but not the problems people pretending that Absolution was the original game or that writing stories is easy are saying at there. For example I don’t think the presence of a character arc constitutes a problem, nor do I think that since IO-Interactive have said they believe writers need the freedom to change the property as they need to that they should be expected to slavishly adhere to every bit you liked from the previous materials while ignoring every bit you didn’t.

Hence my attempt to shift the discussion to things that are actually significant rather than failure to meet unreasonable expectations.

Also I think that ridiculous cliches are part of the fun of Hitman and that you can’t have a property about a super assassin who disguises himself by stealing random people’s clothes which always fit and nobody notices the barcode on the back of his head AND take it too seriously. So really it boils down to do the tropes and cliches serve the story, and are they okay (ie not terrible in some way like horribly racist)

It is also grossly unfair to decide that high standards start and apply to this comic when the property has a long history of ignoring and reinventing it’s own material and making far greater narrative blunders than those you are repeated ranting about.

That seems extremely unlikely since the comic is made by Dynamite Entertainment and doesn’t feature any women with balloon titties - so they’re not paying a licensing fee but rather collaborating and splitting profits. Since Hitman is a niche title and it can be very difficult to make money in, and IO-Interactive is now an independent studio, they can’t put forward the kind of capital investment required to give the writers and artists time to rework and build up production values.

Like I love the Dishonored comics, and would love to see all comics have production values like this:

14

But the reality is this takes a lot of money because art takes time (which you have to pay the artist for), and to get best production you need the writer and artist to be working collaboratively (which means you have to pay for time they’re talking and creating things they will not put into the final product) and have to do all this without getting paid (because they’re doing a lot more pre-production).

So really it points more towards the studio wanting to share more of their lore but having a very limited budget to do so since since they kind of need that money to pay for making Season 2, promoting Season 2 and keeping the lights on while they wait for the money from the initial sales of Season 2 to arrive.

Plus like, if they made it just for cash with Dynamite like every cover would have the Saints posing like they’re about to have a lesbian gang bang (they wouldn’t necessarily be in the story, but they’d be on the covers… also Diana would have at least one shower/underwear scene per comic)

Hence why I find it is generally better to talk reasonably about what we get rather than get angry over things that the world was never going to let us have.

Also, ironic that you do this while claiming that lore from Absolution’s promos is the sacrosanct “original” when so many people threw shit fits over issues of continuity, plot holes, story quality, inconsistencies etc over that production. Like so much… like so much…


#535

Anybody knows how many issues are?


#536

I think they release 6 issues


#537

Oh good, shorter than i thought.


#538

I also wanted them to continue the lore and whole story that started with Codename 47, as it is how I know it and how I like it as almost twenty years passed and it sticks. Even with all the plot holes it sticks and those holes could be filled very easily.

If I could fill those timeline holes as a kid while laying in bed before I fall asleep and thinking about what could’ve happened between asylim and that first mission in Hong Kong or when is the Beldingford Manor in the timeline, those professional writers could come up with something even more awesome.


#539

@eeefaa Check this out. The character and the lore is far better understood by the earlier team at IOI. I mean its just incredible when even the original devs say the similar things.
But now idk why people are defending this new bullshit.


#540

Once again, I have never had a problem with the gun, and I have never even mentioned the gun to be a problem. You use the gun as your fall back argument when you can’t explain away Diana’s fighting skills and strength. The panel I screenshot is where she kicks the guy in the face. You can pretend I’m talking about the gun, but you know I’m not.

Each Hitman game has a unique tone and focus. However, they do not contradict each other. In fact, it’s very easy to draw a straight line from the events of C47 to the events of H6, and the legacy cinematic did a nice job of showing us how this was all supposed to tie together as well.

1999: 47 escapes from the asylum (Codename 47)
1999: 47 meets the ICA and is tested (HITMAN Prologue)
2000: 47 carries out his first hits for the ICA and learns of his true identity (Codename 47)
2002: 47 has spent two years in hiding, and strikes a deal to work with the ICA again if they help him find Vittorio (Silent Assassin)
2004 – 2006: 47 is still working for the ICA (Blood Money, cutscenes in Contracts and end of Contracts)
2012/2013: 47 is still working for the ICA but betrays them to save Victoria. Once the ICA understand what 47 and Diana were doing against Travis, they are welcomed back. (Absolution)
2019: 47 is still working for the ICA. (Post-Prologue HITMAN)

The issues you have said to be inconsistencies actually aren’t, because they do not contradict previous events. Instead, they add more information. Absolution had many, many, many problems, which I have discussed at length in previous threads. The story was a mess, and they really missed an opportunity to explore the ethics of human genetic programming. However, the lore of Absolution did not contradict any previous lore. Rather, it expanded upon it, and that is what the comics were claiming to do as well. However, the comics are not expanding, instead, they are contradicting – and therein lies the problem.

When I talk about previous lore, I don’t just mean Absolution. I mean everything from C47 onwards. I mentioned Absolution when referencing Diana, as prior to that, we did not have much information on her. Now, all the information we did get is moot, re-written as an action-packed story that is at complete odds with who she is as a character. As for 47 misremembering previous hits in Contracts – that is entirely the point of Contracts. The game events of C47 were not suddenly retconned by the events in Contracts, as Contracts was a series of flashbacks, so 47 misremembering events actually gave us some great insight into his psyche and how he sees assassination. The events of C47 still hold up here. But C47 does not hold up as true if the comic lore is the new canon.

As for BM, I don’t recall anything at the end of the game confirming that Diana had the top position at the ICA? Although I would certainly assume she was instrumental in helping management to rebuild their US division, as her file in Absolution shows us she was soon promoted in rank for her services – something we see in game as well, not just the promotional materials. Indeed, the fact that she had the power to flush all the Agency’s accounts in Absolution proves that she had quite a lot of power in the ICA at the time.

The “majesty” she is speaking to on the phone at the end of BM – was that ever confirmed to be the Queen of Denmark? It’s not said in the game. Again, unless IO have confirmed this somewhere, I never took that to mean that she is now reporting to the Queen of Denmark. The ICA is an international agency, with ties to most major governments, working with the UN, CIA, MI6 etc. So it makes sense for them to have links to the Danish government as well. This isn’t re-writing lore when it isn’t contradicting lore.

No, I’m disappointed by what we’ve seen so far in the comic. It’s been over the top, relying on cheap tropes instead of good characterisation, and the fact that there have been mistakes in just two issues does not give me much hope that the future issues will sort this out. Maybe the writing will suddenly turn clever? We won’t know until we read it. My complaints have all been about what we’ve read so far.

You are assuming a character arc, while having previously stated that the comics will not be able to align the characters of 47 and Diana with what we have seen in the games. So I don’t know how this character arc is going to play out. To be honest, I’m still half-expecting that montage sequence I mentioned in a previous reply.

And this is my point. Changing the property – does this not constitute a reboot? Because if this is a reboot, then the inconsistencies go out the window, because it doesn’t matter if it’s inconsistent with previous lore if it is rebooting the lore. But IO have been adamant that H6 is not a reboot of the series. So this is my confusion. Is the lore being rebooted or not?

Then that’s your opinion. Other people think ridiculous tropes and clichés take away from good storytelling. In my opinion, there’s little worse for a story than a cheap trope, and that’s all I’ve seen here – for Diana in particular. The 47 stuff has not been as bad, but it hasn’t made any sense when contrasted with previous lore, so it must be a reboot. Although it’s not supposed to be a reboot.

Again, I don’t agree. So far as I can remember, there isn’t anything in any of the Hitman games, even including H6, that retcons previous lore. But the comic does.

I’ll not pretend to know enough about the comic book industry to know how collaboration works when it comes to splitting profits, as this is not the industry I work in. However, I do agree with others on the forum, and yourself, when you say the comic feels rushed and low budget. Also, as it was given to people who have admitted they just “checked in and out” of the Hitman games, I still stand by my original statement that this comic was not created out of love for the lore, or even love of Hitman. So the only other conclusion I can draw is that its profits will help IO on their way to Season 2. Maybe we can thank the backlash against Absolution’s depiction of women for the reason that no one has to suffer gratuitous shower scenes or fetish-wear assassins in the comic.

I’m not sure what you mean by this. I’ve only been talking about the comic, its poor storytelling, its inconsistencies and how it doesn’t match up with lore established since C47, or the game characterisation of our two main characters. If you mean that the world was never going to let us have a Hitman comic (or any Hitman tie-in media, really) that did justice to the games and characters we love, then why bother making such tie-in media at all.


#541

I think this really sums it up great, and this is how it is and should not be changed by some stupid comic.


#542

If the comic worked to fill in the blanks and delve deeper, that would be awesome. And there is a lot that could be explored for both Diana and 47. Personally, I eat up every new bit of info we get in the games, because I love trying to figure out how their world works.

Using a comic to expand on previous lore was an interesting idea, although I’m not sure if a comic was the best media for this as they usually seem to rely on a lot of explosive action to tell a story (I’m sure there are contradictions to this). The Hitman TV show could be an awesome way to delve deeper into how the ICA works though. What’s sad about the comic is that it’s rebooting the lore entirely, instead of filling in blanks. I actually wouldn’t mind a Hitman reboot if it was supposed to be one, and if the new lore was interesting. What the comic gives us is bland, clichéd, and frankly, quite boring to read, in my opinion.