General News Thread 2.0


#5531

But look at Berlusconi now. He’s weaker than he’s ever been in the last 7 years.

I also agree.


#5532

Well I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but one is an actual cold blooded killer who himself has actually killed over 30 people and beat women to a bloody pulp, did Trump do that…? I think not.

Keep in mind, I’m in No Way saying Trump is a “good guy” but he certainly is no “mobster” let alone, Al freaking Capone lmao come on…


#5533

Well he did run a scam similar to a mob scam.


#5534

What exactly was that…? Again… it’s like I said…
I agree Trump may not be a “good guy” but a mobster? No.

Running a scam and being a murderer are two COMPLETELY different things…


#5535

There’s an interesting conversation that could spawn out of this; mainly about whether there’s a moral equivalence between killings within organised crime, and what many people would call the crime of ordering a drone strike which results in a dozen Pakistani children being vaporised with AGM-114 Hellfire missiles.


#5536

This is true. But where is the actual evidence of Trump doing such a thing? And if true, as in founded guilty with evidence; he would not be here today.


#5537

lol k

The Department of Defense’s report estimates that military operations in the first year of the Trump administration have killed approximately 499 civilians and injured approximately 169 civilians. It says it is still assessing more than 450 reports of casualties in Iraq and Syria from 2017.


#5538

Well…? Did he!? No.


#5539

I’m not sure if you remember the operation in Yemen Trump approved earlier last year, but it resulted in ten children being killed, including other civillians. This is all but one example. While Obama rapidly expanded the drone program, Trump has continued to oversee it’s expansion.

If you take into account the stats @Quinn has linked to above, Trump’s drone strikes have already killed more people than Obama did during his eight years as president.

There’s no restraint here at all.


#5540

I have no idea why this is the hill you’re choosing to die on. Trump doesn’t deserve your defence. He is no better than someone like Al Capone. Trump presides over an administration whose policies towards the middle east include killing civilians in illegal drone strikes, for god’s sake.

Not to mention that in his pre-Presidential life, he was a notorious bully and routinely intimidated people who he couldn’t pay off.


#5541

Soo…what are you saying? That makes Obama “less” of a “Mobster?” And if that’s the case, shouldn’t Obama be in prison too?

And what? Just because they approved an operation, that means they approved the death in those ten children? As if they knew innocents would indeed be killed?

That’s a very unfortunate fact about war. Sometimes there are casualties. It’s sad but true. But just because there were casualties does not necessarily mean they knew or wanted it to happen. You can’t compare that to an actual criminal/mobster; where their actual intent is to inflict harm/death.


#5542

I’m not defending him. I just admitted I’m not crazy about him either. But what’s right is right. Just because I don’t care for someone I’m not going to label someone something they clearly are not.


#5543

Screw your whataboutism. I’m talking about Trump - When I want to talk about Obama, i’ll talk about Obama. Obama’s biggest flaw was not being radical enough. As an alleged progressive (heh) he could have made good on his promises to close down Gitmo, reign in the Patriot Act, allow for proper oversight of the NSA’s mass surveillance programmes, the illegal drone strikes, but instead he expanded on it. Now look who is in charge? He left the key in the lock for a really nasty person.

Someone isn’t reading my links.

Ok, fine. He’s not a Mobster. He’s something so much worse than that.


#5544

Alright well I honestly don’t know how to respond to that… I strongly disagree but okay…

Clearly to you, a man that killed over 30 people (with his own hands) is “somehow” less evil than Trump :ok_hand:

And if that article is indeed true, how in the hell is he not in prison? How? I mean if that truly happened and there is indeed evidence of it… how? Something seems off… because even a President couldn’t get away with something like that with that amount of evidence against him


#5545

Uhh that’s not true. The 30 or so deaths attributable to Capone were carried out by other people on his behest. So it’s not even all that different.

It’s like… You’re moving the goalposts as if they were jumpers. You say this:

Then when you’re shown the evidence you ask for, you say this:

This makes it all rather difficult to believe you when you say:

Because you are. You’re making excuses and moving the goalposts.


#5546

OJ Simpson didn’t get convicted for murder despite all the evidence, so really who knows?


#5547

Yes. These aspects are factored in in such operations and civilian casualties are generally considered acceptable collateral damage as long as you’re not deliberately targeting them.

The US has declared war on Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen and Somalia? I must’ve missed that.

These are covert, indiscriminate, extrajudicial killings. Serious questions about the legality of these strikes exist for these reasons, however it is diffucult to pursue this in a judicial sense given the limits (logistical and practical) under international law. For me at least, the moral wrongness of them is rather unambiguous.

That’s a valid point, as you’re saying intentions matter more than the results. This is a common argument used to justify a variety of military actions. However, I’d question whether targeted assassinations which result in civilian deaths don’t intend to “inflict harm/death” …that’s pretty much the point of them.
It’s also important to note the US has prioritised assassination of suspected/confirmed combatants over extraction for many years now.


#5548

No Quinn, I’m seriously not. I’m just trying to gather the full story here. Nothing more. I’m not defending him (as I said I don’t even care for him) I’m just not going to condemn someone to benefit myself or my arguments.


#5549

#5550

Oh man, that’s another story entirely for another day haha but if my memory serves me correctly, didn’t he later actually admit to killing her and write a book? Although nothing could be done after the fact because of “double jeopardy” but yes you’re right, who knows.

@Watson well idk then man. (I just want to be very clear) I’m seriously not defending Trump. I’m not, I don’t even care for him as I said many times, so what would I possibly gain in doing so?
I’m just trying to gather all facts here, nothing more…

The fact of the matter is, we do not know what happens behind closed doors, especially when the government is involved. All I’m trying to say IF that is true, how could Trump possibly not be in jail? Something just don’t add up here.

We don’t know the hard and unfortunate decisions that have to be made in the heat of the moment for “whatever cause” wheather it’s for personal gain or actually saving more lives than unfortunately taken some, who knows?? Idk…