General News Thread 2.0


#6584

Thanks for engaging.

Yes, the police have hard work to do we agree. I only say this to point out the majority are hard working folks that deserve the benefit of the doubt. Too often a catchy headline condemns the cop and destroys their life. The whole country turns into a monday morning quarterback judging someone dealing with a life or death blink of an eye moment. Let’s just wait until the investigations are done.

Us routinely questioning their morals and motives has had a great chilling effect on the nations law enforcement. The former Attorney General called it the Ferguson Effect. Police are less willing to engage because they are worried their motives and methods will be called into question.

In everything there are bad apples, the examples you gave were just a few bad apples. We routinely hear of teachers engaged in sex with students but we don’t call into question teaching, and cast suspicion on teachers. No, we isolate the incident and call it a bad person. We don’t have a culture of fear and hate towards teacher just cause a few turned out to be pedophiles.

I am aware of the examples you gave. In the first one the young man tragically reached down after the cop repeatedly told him not to. Most unfortunate, but he was given a direct order and the cop feared for his life.

I take comfort in arrest like the one I covered, it shows that the popular anti cop rhetoric is dangerous and wrong. The police need our support- not our constant criticism. If things were as bad as some claim, not trusting police, the police are racist, then the incidents you mentioned would be more common.

I just wanted to shower some praise on some outstanding cops, because all we usually hear is “black man shot by cop.”


#6585

Actually no, not at all. Giving police “the benefit of the doubt” is incompatible with democracy. This isn’t my rule: skepticism and distrust of law enforcement are literally written into the fabric of the United States of America. It’s not a coincidence that as soon as the Founders established the basic format of the federal government via the Constitution, they wrote ten amendments about how their new government should relate to the citizens and vice versa… and five of the ten are explicit warnings about and checks on police power.

So, I have sympathy for police for the reasons you describe— the so-called “Ferguson effect”— as well as, say, the convictions that are never made because police don’t have valid cause for a search under the Fourth Amendment. But that’s how we do things in free countries and if cops don’t have the backbone for it, or it hurts their feelings, they should take it up with Thomas Jefferson instead of Colin Kaepernick.

How does the saying go, about bad apples?

I would love to compare the responses of schools to sexually abusive teachers with the responses of police departments to crooked and racist officers, but I don’t know how to do so in a quantitative way. I think suspicion of teachers, particularly male teachers (which does exist) is proportional to the confidence that schools weed out and punish bad apples in a responsible way.

Except that’s not really your agenda because in the same post you veered into the next lane to say “if you get killed by police it is your fault.” And this illustrates my problem with the whole “Blue Lives Matter” narrative: you’re mostly interested in praising police as a means to minimize the suffering of minorities and other police victims. If you simply want to praise outstanding cops I’ll praise them with you. I’ve been watching Canadian police interrogations on YouTube this week and seeing some amazing work. For me, that attitude can co-exist with the reality that I have a duty to be skeptical of police power and that there are systemic problems in policing that we can’t shy away from. I encourage you to think about how you can celebrate good cops without assuming cops are good by definition, and without being a dick to people who have been wrongfully killed.


#6586

#6587

I see.
I have taken your words to heart and reflection. My rhetoric should not come across as dickish or callous towards the dead. I feel silly stating the obvious but i take no joy, satisfaction in folks getting killed by the police, justified or not.

I realize that my statement 4 posts ago “If you get killed by the police it’s your fault” Should have been articulated better. Compliance will keep you alive in police encounters in the majority of times and situations. Deaths are avoidable if folks listen to the police. Don’t resist, don’t argue, fight in court.

When I speak of benefit of the doubt I don’t mean the laws and judges I only mean us at home. We are fed headline after breaking news about another cop shooting another black man. Yet we never hear the full story play out, only the flashy headline one after the other. Condemning police in public opinion. Just wait for the investigation I say. I cannot speak to the constitution it is as it should be, but the public some of us are losing confidence or have lost confidence in police because of all the scandalous press that’s willing to throw cops under the bus for a few clicks.

Bad apples ruin the whole bunch, but does that mean we discard apples sight unseen. And that’s the problem with so many. They want to discard police and this attitude is dangerous.

We agree cops are hardworking and believe outstanding cops should be praised. We also agree bad cops should be removed. What’s the problem?

I wish maybe you wouldn’t project what you think my agenda is here. I only want to praise good police work, is that not enough in an age where every story with a cop has him killing someone?

Help me praise good police as you said you would, and I will help you condemn bad police.

People can’t get trapped in the mindset that cops are the enemy and that’s where alot of folks are. I am simply being reasonable in trying to share positive cop news to encourage folks to look past the sensationalized headlines. The media gets wealthy off spreading fear, and now it’s fear of cops.

I cannot and will not silence anyone who feels rightly or wrongly mistreated by police. I am not looking to cover that up, I am looking to say it’s not all bad and look at these good guys who deserve your trust. Stay cool, stay calm, follow orders and you will make it home.

Celebrating goodness does not automatically ignore badness. I fear my county has turned into a parent that only reacts to bad grades.


#6588

Generally speaking is the largest problem is the police as an institution tend to grudgingly tolerate the good cops, while working tireless and sparing no expense to protect the bad apples from consequences (and thus enable and reward abusive behaviour).

It’s particularly reprehensible given it’s their job to provide accountability in society:

The problem stems from officers being pressured to write tickets to quotas (rather than as societal transgressions), being obligated to enforce bullshit laws but does also has issues with them having political advantages to targeting marginalized people (who are less likely to be able to afford legal defenses, etc), commanders benefiting from ordering abusive actions (meeting quotas to jump plain corruption), and general lack of oversight (who watches the watchers?).

In the USA and many other places, the police do not work to prevent these and instead allow the bad apples to essentially run the show by bullying out good officers, getting promoted over good officers, getting support from rich people who benefit from the abuse, etc. It’s a mess and it’s to the detriment of the good officers (who tend to only get treated as token PR performers who never get promoted).

So really, the best thing to help the good officers is to put on the pressure on the institutions to clean up on a giant scale so that the good officers can get “celebrated” by getting promoted, getting to write internal policy, decide who gets promoted, etc.


#6589

Gotta love UNESCO they are one of the few UN divisions that actually does what they aim to do, instead of politicking and arguing. Today they added items to their intangible culture list (cultural hallmarks that are NOT tangible locations) including reggae music.

Other items this year included hurling (Irish sport), the Budslau festivals in Belarus, Tibetan medicinal bathing and a slew of others. They also added to their endangered list Cambodian rituals, Syrian shadow puppetry, ancient Pakistani astronomy traditions and Maasai coming-of-age rituals amongst others


#6590

don’t be a bouncer, don’t live in your own home, don’t wear a hoodie?


#6591

I’ve been having an enjoyable time following this developing story.


#6592

Also @Speaker are you doing some sort of elaborate performance act or something right now?


#6593

I knew if I continued on like this you would come.
My arms are too short to box with god.

But I need practice so this is the best I can offer. In the end I have a few questions for you about this topic I am interested on your opinion about.

I think the corruption and over sight issues that you mentioned are inherit in any large organized group. The military and the catholic church have been rocked by sexual assault charges that were only made worse by organized cover up. I can agree that corruption is a problem with the police, this has always been the case for any cops in any nation.

The problem is when the idea of corruption is mixed in with the toxic idea of racism. It is one thing to have the hidden message in the media that the cops did this and that because they were corrupt and trying to make a quick buck. It is another thing entirely to project that the cop killed this (any) black man because he saw a black man and knew he could kill him.

At the root of the issue is distrust of the police, which only leads to more crime. For example in Saint Louis the vast majority of cases go unsolved because the community refuses to get involved. Police mistrust leads to more crime.

I blame unions as a whole for allowing bad cops to stick around, the stakes are much lower but it’s just like a local grocery union allowing a bum worker to stay on cause they are part of the union. It is obviously not life or death but the concept of the union protecting it’s workers is the same, I don’t think that is unique to cops, keeping bad apples.

I want to get some clarification, I accuse you of nothing, so I am careful with my words. Cops are specifically targeting black people for engagement because they assume that most black folk cannot pay?

I cannot argue that institutions need house cleaning from time to time, the two institutions I mentioned earlier could surely do better with it. But the remedy in the mean time is not for certain people to run around with the false perception that they are being targeted for state violence. The remedy is not to have a combative attitude towards your priest-I don’t even ask that you blindly trust the priest-the remedy is to give each priest the benefit of the doubt and protect yourself as you would anyone. All the institutions I mentioned are positions of power and respect-that shouldn’t go away. Accountability is always needed but let’s not paint cops and the institution in broad strokes-then we are no different from the cops we claim to be against.

My questions:

It seems in the name of trying to inform the media has really just enraged and alienated. Again I don’t wish to put words in your mouth but it seems the perception of the police I am getting form you is that the police are largely corrupt, self serving, and largely motivated not so much by racial resentment but convince. It’s just easier to get money out of the black folk. If not could you succinctly explain your view of police as a whole in America?

Also if we take at fave value what you say about the police needing mass clean up in your opinion what is the mindset one should have when engaged or thinking of the police? Can you trust them, should you be stand offish? Is it not okay to assume at face value that the cop in front of you is a decent hard working person just doing a job? You understand that the point of the positive stories is to combat the negative perception police have in this nation. It will take great political will and unity to over haul the entire police force in this nation.

I am genuinely and honestly interested to know what you think, or would advice the mindset of someone who feels targeted by the headlines they see day in and day out. How do you comfort them into not fearing that their life will be arbitrarily taken from them by the people sworn to protect them. My idea was to focus on the positive, and encourage the idea that there is more good than bad. It’s not as bad as they make it seem.

Thanks Jar


#6594

#6595

#6596

I hope they don’t get hit, the lasting a state like Alaska would need is a tsunami.


#6597

Which is why it’s critical to prioritize combating corruption over giving cops a good public image to the one percent. The people that don’t trust cops aren’t distrustful because of a Twitter hashag - they’re distrustful because they and their family have suffered.

Yet levels of this problem vary from police group to police group, as John Oliver’s video showcased.

That doesn’t make any sense given that unions are dependent upon workers, if the police as an institute were not defending the bad apples the police unions would be overthrown pretty quickly due to their failure to protect good officers. The problem is systemic and is that way because of long term embracing of the abuse by the people with money and power.

They specifically tend to target people cannot pay for defense lawyers or who will be disadvantaged in a jury trial. So black people, latinos, people who don’t speak English, native americans, etc. They did this in Ferguson to the extent that the Department of Justice investigation concluded that being black in Ferguson was akin to living under military occupation by a hostile force.

These groups of people often can pay fines, but even if they can’t it is often advantageous to the groups interlinked with the police since the use of prison labour makes high incarciration rates advantageous, the prohibiting of people with criminal records from voting ensures they do not get a new boss who takes corruption seriously and high “crime” rate is used to justify awards and overlooking the brutality involved.

Sometimes rage and alienation are the appropriate emotional response - particularly since the media has until recently, spent decades being complicit with this kind of abuse.

I mean, I empathise with the problem to a degree I’m a debt collector in an organization that is always under public scrutiny and has a tendency to make the papers when there is a fuckup, but be overlooked when there’s a triumph. But the reality is bad apples do spoil the bunch, and the major thing organizations can do is get toss out the bad apples.

The police in America have a very long and troubled history where they have historically been primarily the tools of political powerhouses first and servants of the people second. That kind of oversight means that it rewards behaviour that is not in the interests of the people, particularly when it can lead to self-perpetuating cycles of say the police arresting everyone who wants to fix them, so those people don’t get a job.

The general advice given by lawyers in most places is - don’t talk to the police without training or representation by a legal counsel. It is, generally speaking, impossible to determine if any given officer is actually a good person or just a good actor and the price of erring on the side of trusting can be tremendous. That will remain so until various things are fixed such as:

  • Wide spread corruption caused by rewarding fines/arrests/etc rather than rewarding best outcome for the community
  • Inherently negative campaigns such as the war on drugs, war on sex workers, war on immigrants, etc.
  • Failure to create an effective and impartial method for managing accusations against police
  • Failure to prioritize deescalation training over more high impact approaches
  • Wide spread dependency upon fines, support from private prisons, etc to fund city councils

All of those will take a lot of political will and time to accomplish, so for now a major step would be making the bad apples feel that if they do act out there will be consequences - and that any police force with a record of protecting bad apples can and will have that record used against them.


#6598

Is this seriously fucking real? Not only did Bethesda make a shitty game, they said canvas bags had to change due to “cost” when apparently they’ve been giving them out for fucking free


#6599

#6600


#6601

Lol nice try, but I think every video game company is shit. This isn’t a story about Rockstar, don’t try to make it about Rockstar. Fuck Rockstar for their shady work practices. But also fuck Bethesda for false advertisement.


#6602

it’s more so poking fun at the gaming community, I just thought it was a good opportunity to post it.

but it’s not even the best part of the CE? obviously Beth should deliver on their promises but who buys a $200 collector’s edition for a canvas bag? the power armor helmet is by far the best part of it


#6603

Ukrainian Orthodox Church is now a separate entity from the Russian Orthodpx Church.