Hitman 2 (2018) Announcement Discussion (Gameplay included)


#4317

Most of the “darker” themes in HITMAN are rather subdued in comparison to the previous games. Tonally, we’re closer to James Bond and Ethan Hunt. We’re constantly reminded how wicked the targets are, with all of them tied to terrorist echelons within the corridors of power, usually on the verge of undermining national security.

We’re more of a secret agent than we ever were.

A dark atmosphere isn’t always defined by its visuals. That said, HITMAN feels particularly toned-down when it comes to delivering on the visible seediness which defined older titles. Even with games like C47, you felt like you were infiltrating the operations of some truly dark characters. I don’t feel the same way about HITMAN. It’s more like crossing the names off a NOC list than anything else… and the horrendously cringe-filled NPC commentary which permeates every situation doesn’t help either.


#4318

i’m not exactly sure how we’re “constantly” reminded of how bad the targets are. and how is the NPC dialogue cringey? i’ve never physically recoiled at any of the NPC dialogue.

and yes, some targets are now more higher up on the business side of things. i’m not sure how it makes them any less dark. it just doesn’t bother me that the targets aren’t tied to sex trafficking rings, are pedophiles, are in gangs, or chop up people in a slaughterhouse anymore. at some points in the previous games it just felt overly edgy. not every level’s atmosphere has to directly relate to the undertone of it.

if bringing back dark atmospheres means once i jump into every level, i’m immediately hit with the fact that my target murdered lots of innocent ppl, i don’t want it. is the sky gonna be gray and raining because my target killed some people? no.

i just want some variety tbh. have some high profile rich musicians as targets in one level and have targets who are psycopath lunatics in the next.


#4319

I prefer the new targets they feel more like real people to me, up until HITMAN all the character felt like stereotypes.

Those old Hitman games had to resort to stereotypes in order to say they are evil, like Pablo Ochoa, he is Colombian so of course he makes coke, deals in coke and snorts coke.

He dressed like Tony Montana and you he chases you around with a big gun. In a series of mission so stupid IO straight up cut out his part in the remake. Replacing him with generic evil Englishmen and a generic evil lawyer and Fat Bastard

Don’t even get me started on Blood Money that game had three paedophiles (Two Catholics and a Southerner who committed incest while also engaging in paedophilia) . Like that is not “dark” that is lazy, sexual abusers are the most basic way of screaming evil it is why so many shitty/lazy movies used rapists to inspire revenge movies


#4320

I agree, people like Jordan Cross is much more believable targets than meat king the hutt. As much as I liked the party levels like you better watch out, Paris scratched that itch for me.


#4321

When it comes to characters I use the good old Plinkett test from Red Letter Media. If you can describe a character without referring to their appearance or job they are great characters. And until HITMAN only two characters did that 47 and Diana (Jane Perry), of course there is room for visual characterisation in all media but in those old games it was just not subtle.

Even the worst targets in HITMAN the Colorado targets (in my opinion) had more character that any of the main targets in Codename 47. Some of the elusive targets even had more character.


#4322

Moving on from characterisation for now does anyone else think that the target for The North Sea is Locksley, I mean I assume that Hall and Reynard are killed in New Zealand. I think the game states that he is UK (A North Sea nation) and seems to know the ICA and has a connection to social justice (ordering the Jarnefelt job and the Sarajevo Six, his name is connected to Robin Hood) and is rich


#4323

“Me so horny 47, me love Lee Hong long time”

The old games were masterpieces of writing.


#4324

Let’s not forget the lofty and wordy masterpiece that is Hitman Absolution either. I meant that story is gold. All those broad stereotypes, lack of respect for established canon, absurd character motivations and loose plot threads really elevate it above the other games


#4325

Yes, variety is good… but that’s not what I’m seeing in HITMAN. All the targets can be grouped into the same category, and I haven’t for a second felt threatened by them on any meaningful level. They’re not bad targets for a game like this, but there’s a lot of untapped potential.

Dark doesn’t mean everything is soaked in rain and targets are sex maniacs who chop women up, that’s a too simplistic way of describing the tone of the older games — and it doesn’t treat them with the artistic maturity they deserve. What I’d like to see is a more refined approach when it comes to infiltrating the inner machinations of our targets. In a game like Hitman such approaches are enchanced by making you operate in a seedy, often grim, criminal underworld. Whether the sun is shining is a purely aesthetic aspect.

@2odastream You have quirks like that which add some humour, but those have been elevated in HITMAN, standing out like a sore thumb compared to the seriousness they’re going for in the cutscenes.
I also don’t count Absolution as an “old” Hitman game BTW, and have made my thoughts on it’s story and dialogue pretty clear over the years.


#4326

For me the obverse is true, all those old Hitman characters are so broadly simplistic and so underwritten that they didn’t threaten me, bumping them off didn’t satisfy me in any way.

Killing Strandberg after he says “Fuck you” to the Moroccan people was satisfying, I knew who he was, why he was evil and IO put in little details it to the way he walked and talked that showed that.

Killing Ochoa was so bad, all he did was run around with a big gun and shout at me. It was laughable, he was also inhumanly strong with no apparent reason. After that I was like "Well that is another one down, who is next? Oh an Austrian man huh well I guess he will be a neo-Nazi (I was right in fact thanks to plot bullshit he was an actual Nazi, even came from Linz, reportedly Hitler’s favourite city)

Of course we are all entitled to our opinions, if you want to debate this more, one of us can create a new topic.


#4327

I completely back you with what you’re saying. I really hate checking HITMAN on Facebook and seeing everyone complaining ‘we want the dark atmosphere back’ and ‘stop making npcs so cringey’. I’m honestly really content with HITMAN 2016, and I’ve become addicted to the series because of it. Whilst I don’t mind going back and playing Contracts and Silent Assassin, I feel like IO interactive hears more than it’s fair share of complaints. Once they implement something, people immediately move on to the next thing.

This isn’t a go at anyone, but there are time’s like when the Columbia trailer released, and I was like ‘wow’. And a few minutes later I see complaints at how the gun is a Fusil. I’m for new content as much as anyone, but I feel like IO deserves more credit where it is due.

I’ll be happy with what I get, and won’t complain as a result of a few missing details.


#4328

Well they sure ate humble pie when they were told that the Fusil was in fact a place holder, also did they completely ignore the Hackl handgun from Miami.

Also IO are one of the few developers who take an active participation with their fandom. I mean who here hasn’t seen @Travis_IOI, @Clemens_IOI or @Lasse_IOI (amongst others) on this site answering our questions and not to mention the streams they do, answering our questions no matter how inane or important they are


#4329

why should i feel threatened by the targets that aren’t meant to be threatening? and i can’t really see how i can group a scientist bullied as a child and developing a virus that can kill anyone across the world to a musician that has come up rich, has a bad father relationship, and killed his girlfriend. it may seem like an extreme example, but there is still enough targets that cannot be grouped together.

and yes you’re right, it is a way too simplistic way to describe the games. but is it not true? people related to drugs, pedophiles, members of gangs. some of the previous targets did show artistic maturity in the character writing, yet we still had more than 1 pedophile target all conforming to stereotypes. catholic pedophiles :roll_eyes: and a pedophile who was bisexual and commited incest.

i do agree with this, currently even the “darker” parts of maps feel too lighthearted. i’d like a more realistic approach to the outside world (sapienza town) and as you start entering areas like the mansion, IO takes their artistic license and fits what they will.

and i think the humor coexisting with the seriousness shows signs of a good writing team. which is why i really never want them to go back to the Contracts-esque games (despite being one of my favorite games, one atmosphere lingering over the entire game is boring). the writing of Hokkaido has areas like the patient areas where ppl are playing Pokemon GO and Amos Dexter is yelling about freedom to the kitchen staff, and as you go into the hospital area there is a feeling of sterile tensity as the doctors work on Soders, completely changing the mood after you kill him. not to mention the area below the hospital (morgue) where they were cutting up dead bodies and apparently were trying to freeze Agent Smith alive to cut him up later.


#4330

Racism is humourous, apparently.


#4331

There is only one person who should be threatening in a Hitman game, the main antagonist.

In Codename 47 our villain is a stereotypical mad scientist who takes our protagonist for a ride and makes him look like a fool
In silent Assassin it is two cliches A I am you but I am EEEEEVIL!! and a you killed my (significant other) prepare to die Inigo Montoya guy

In three it is some guy who jumps our badass hero (Is the most threatening thing about him being French)

In Blood Money it is some guy in a wheel chair You can kill the guy with a flight of stairs.

In Absolution we have the poorly written, insanely stupid and overly stereotyped Dexters and the complete moron that is Travis.

In HITMAN we have Shadow Client. We see him do terrible things, plan acts of terrorism and he is just as capable as our protagonist and more importantly he has a presence stage wise. We also have Providence who are all powerful, all knowing and maybe are not the villains at all. They are just a group of rich assholes but they are propping the world up (of course season two will shed more light on the group and the SC)

If you feel as though the targets are more threatening than 47 then IO did their job wrong. 47 is the best], barring a select group of people and gene freaks, he is an apex predator and his targets are “ordinary” people for the most part.


#4332

Also, he’s a nazis. And a Star Wars.


#4333

I’ll have you know Dexter is one of the most brilliantly written villains in any game - period.
Just listen to his presence at 2:10
:joy:


#4334

Was Ort-Meyer a Nazi? I mean the Fuchs brothers were their bio states that they were but I don’t think O-M was


#4335

Yep, truly Blake Dexter is the most deep and original character in gaming his story :joy: I mean if that is a real trailer for Blake then I really wonder how it was fiscally successful, which makes me a hypocrite since I bought the Collectors Edition on goodwill alone.


#4336

Ort Meyer was thrown out by the nazis for being too insane.