Hitman 2 - Rant About the State of the Game

Had this video podcast recommended to me by YouTube. I’m really looking forward to listening to it, seems like it’s a speedrunner’s divest on the game. Which, as someone who tried speedrunning because I loved the game casually, I’m looking forward to hearing my frustrations expressed in words

Alright so ten minutes in this video is actual garbage.

“This is the worst game of the decade. game goes downhill after Miami. The maps are too big …I didn’t even play any levels after Santa Fortuna”

What?!

The video starts off cool at first, it talks about everyone’s credentials as fans of the series. How Hitman 2 is polarising for speed runners and how if you play the game casually it’s fine. Then right after I unpause it I find out the host didn’t even play the rest of the game. This is so stupid.

“They did big maps well with Sapienza”

Sapienza is literally got more unused space than this fmhshflyd

“Isle of Sgail I heard that one’s a pile of shit”

Yeah, you heard. You didn’t fucking play it. Also… no, not really? It’s a well designed, relatively small map with dull targets. The host calls it Colorado 2.0 and I just disagree.

“Yeah it’s shit for people that play for more than five minutes”

I’ve played Hitman 2 for a thousand hours. Thanks for being condescending, mister

“Colorado was big”

It’s small.

“The old games had small maps”

Ah, so nostalgia wanking. Do you even remember H2SA? There’s tons of dull, long maps.

“In the 2016 games you had public zones and private zones.”

And Sgail doesn’t have that? Bullshit. Sgail is easier than Bangkok and Colorado, and about on par with Marrakesh. Just use chandeliers or the cage on Zoe and then use the radio on Spphia. It’s ez

“Hidden Valley is a good map”

Okay this has to be an elaborate troll. This guy says he’s played Ghost Mode (in fact he only claims to have played Santa Fortuna IN Ghost Mode) with CJ, I don’t believe for a second he knows any speedrunners. Is this the Balding Plebs in disguise?

I’m going to go through this whole video hour by hour to see what else is just blatantly wrong, and make a cliff notes version of the good points they make. They say in the description they want IO to take feedback to heart, but no one is going to watch this 3 hour movie at IO so I will do it for them

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you shouldn’t worry about it. it’s a bunch of old-heads shackled by nostalgia, happens a lot :stuck_out_tongue:

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It would seem more productive to just reply to the creator of the video on Youtube, instead of moving the discussion here.

Regardless: the overall point I agree the most with inkblowout on is that the game still needs a lot of fixes for existing bugs, and that ghost mode especially has a lot of bugs.

But Travis said there may be another patch during last IOI monthly, so maybe there’s hope,

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I don’t have a YouTube account, so this and reddit were really my only options and I don’t value the latter as a form of discussion.

Yeah I do agree too. That’s the problem, I know for a fact Hitman 2 is worse for speedrunning as someone who’s dabbled in it. I was even thinking of making a post that’s a wishlist for H3 and my excuse to rambling about the game’s flaws.

Hitman 2 is a game that improves on 2016 in so many ways. I believe map design is better than 2016’s, I love the fact headturning is more consistent, I love the gadgets that aren’t the electric phone, fuck that thing, and I love the accident KO mechanic as a way of getting NPC items and disguises easily. All that is fantastic for speedrunning. But he has a point that the game is like a treasure that you crack open and realise it’s not fun as a speed game. From inconsistent AI behaviour, bugs, an item which makes coming up with new strats redundant, and some of the worse controller drift in a video game I’ve ever played, it’s more fun to just mess about with it than actually play it. So the idea I agree with but the people saying it miss the forest for the trees

Update: listened to more of the podcast

They’re talking about how IO said all Hitman maps shouldn’t have deadends and one of the guys said “I felt like there wasn’t ways to get out in Sgail.”

Climb. Out. The windows.

Also I think I just heard him say that Mumbai is restrictive. It’s one of the easiest speedrunning levels imo. It’s incredibly diverse options wise. You can incorporate Kashmirian and the smoke pillars into your runs pretty easily

“The game so grindy. They should’ve had a money system like in Blood Money.”

I would love a money system but that’s the definition of grinding. Playing missions multiple times to get points is the same as playing them multiple times to get money.

“All levelling up does is give you some guns and starting locations… To speedrun this game you have to grind.”

No…? Even when I attempted runs the majority of what I used was the fibre wire and a silenced pistol. Funny enough you can run default loadout categories. You don’t need to be obsessed with getting world record. In fact I’d gotten 100th on Haven just by shooting gas canisters and target’s feet to drown them.

“All Hitman games are different.”

Hitman hasn’t changed its formula in 20 years. It’s about as innovative as Mario

“Our friend, such and such, played the game and said he was bored.”

Pack it up guys, some rando said the game was boring. IO interactive goes bankrupt. Dogs and cats raining down on us all. The CEO of objective game analysis said a video game was boring

“I play Hearts of Iron. There’s no grinding.”

Well I’m happy you like that game but that’s a non-point. Hitman aint Hearts of Iron. Plus don’t your have to grind in order to afford better units in strategy games? THats the one thing I remember disliking about them. It was waiting for your troops to attack to get money so you could afford more troops and buildings. I could be wrong tho.

Also it’s weird he says he “doesn’t have to time to spend playing a game for hours when’s he also says he’s a Hitman speedrunner.

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I disagree with the points the video makes.

I think it is wrong to criticize a game without playing it, seems a bit immature to criticize the maps over hearsay or other people’s experiences.

However …

I can already tell that the reaction to the video is going to be mostly vitriol from fanboys who will blindly defend IO’s most blatant mistakes and errors. And that deeply bothers me a lot.

Yes, Hitman 2 does have many improvements over Season 1.

If you don’t like their opinions, don’t watch the video.

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Like I said. The general ideas I can agree with. Buggy game, bad to speedrun, etc.

But at the same time the video is very condescending, implying anyone who dares to disagree didn’t play the game for more than five minutes. Just give me a we’ll reasoned critique of the game and listing all the flaws in a google doc or something, instead of going on and on about the good old days and how filthy casuals ruined the franchise

“It’s a tutorial from start to finish. It’s way more handholdy than 2016. I never played Blood Money but it got it right. Why’d they have to make it appeal to CASUALS?” Is essentially what the host is saying atm. I mean, once again that’s debatably. I didn’t need mission stories to kill Zoe’s and sophia Washington in my speedruns, in fact speedrunning this game is way harder than Blood Money due to the stricter rating system. (Another flaw of H2). I don’t understand this at all

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Completely agree with that.

Kotti has some excellent videos outlining his criticisms for the game, still with some frustration but much better presented as a whole.

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I agree with much of what you said. I like Hitman 2 (2018), despite its flaws.

That said, some of your criticisms of Inkblowout are unjustified.

Hitman hasn’t changed its formula in 20 years. It’s about as innovative as Mario

Not at all true. The rating system alone is radically different. In Blood Money for example you could get shot at for trespassing in the suit and keep SA. Walking/ sliding is much more important in H2:SA. Codename 47 doesn’t even have a rating system.

Inkblowout is a speedrunner of the older Hitman games, particularly Hitman 2: Silent Assassin and Hitman Contracts. One of the most creative pioneers in that game.

Not everyone likes every Hitman game equally; it’s obvious Inkblowout likes the older ones more and spent more time on them. Doesn’t lessen his achievements. Ink has grinded as much as anyone on the older games.

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Yeah Kotti’s vids are fine from what I’ve seem. Sometimes he gets a point wrong (like arguing that all challenges should be challenging, I mean they’re literally just checkmarks that keep track of what you’ve done. Just like how skill points in Spyro don’t actually require skill. It’s just a name.) his videos are very digestable and IO pays attention to him, which I hope they do for the really good points he makes, the rating system needs some work for example

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Ah I see. Thanks for informing me of that. I don’t really follow pre-Blood Money speedrun because I don’t like those games. My boyfriend does, he might know who is

“Why is there so many bodyguards? Every character is like Justin’s Bieber, because he has so many bodyguards” - real quote

Idk why a movie producer, a drug lord, a CEO of a bank and the world’s elite would have bodyguards. People who run a Shadow cabal of rich people that run the world. wHy wOuLd ThEy hAvE bOdYgUaRdS?!

Plus they complain about Santa Fortuna’s guards where a) Rico doesn’t have any guards following him and b) guards don’t follow the characters into their own private spaces like the cabin and the meeting room in Colombia. Right after they complain that “shouldn’t they have some PRIVACY?!”

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Inky is a superb player no doubt. He is a great guy as well, and honestly I understand his frustration.

But again, I feel like it is a bit strange to criticize a game he has much less experience with. If he had spent more time on all of the levels he may have formulated a better critique.

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I’m not terribly familiar with Inkblowout, but I do know he plays ghost mode a fair bit. So I would say his criticisms of that at least carry weight.

Also note that it was not just Inkblowout on the podcast. GKPunk and Sk1yy were also co-casting, and they have both played Hitman 2018 more on the main missions.

And maybe Ink and the co-hosts exaggerated a bit on some points, but much of their overall frustration with the game is not new.

Kotti for instance is no slouch. He knows more about Hitman 2018 than just about anyone, he even pioneered an up-to-date spreadsheet of the rating system: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H8Ap7hbC9Sm3hltDFPSf_XolXlIiVrowWXivmW3Qoik/edit?usp=sharing

Kotti hasn’t played Hitman 2018 for months, likely because of many issues that still are not fixed. Biggest offenders include the fact that tranq glitch (lines 45 and 46 of spreadsheet above) still exists, and most accident KO’s do not work on targets. Being able to perform illegal actions after body shots/ triple shots on walls was also something Kotti did not fully agree with, IIRC.

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I completely understand. I’ve also voiced a lot of criticism and frustration for the new game as well.

I’m not complaining about their frustration. I believe that it is 100% justified because of the experiences so many people have shared with the game. It’s not just one or two people who are frustrated, it is basically a majority of the speedrunning community and many other members of the Hitman community at large.

My only issue is that because of the way the video deals with the frustration, IO is unlikely to take any of the criticism to heart as it almost sounds like they are whining instead of dealing objectively with the game’s core issues.

I would love to see someone make a video where all of the game’s problems are discussed very factually and is organized in a very clear manner, so IO can actually take proper note of the game’s issues and fix them one by one.

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Well, Kotti’s spreadsheet alone points out a lot of the issues with the ratings system at least.

I do have it on good authority that ThatGeekyGuy aka @Reaper47 intends to do an informative video with video examples on Hitman 2018’s bugs in the near future now that Travis has announced there may be a future patch.

Geeky’s channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-Zhsmmlier4A87988PkMTg

So stay tuned for that.

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I look forward to that! I’m also going to be coming up with my own little H3 wishlist too, if anyone’s interested. I have ideas for UI improvements, a new rating system and even bonus mission ideas. Like I said, if anyone’s interested but I’m mostly gonna make it to get it out there

when has that happened?

Sorry, I got a bit carried away when writing that.

Deleted that part from my post as it was a bit unfair to say that.

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I get what you mean. I don’t think anyone has personally attacked people but there’s certainly a divide between people who play this game that wasn’t there in 2016

The thing with 2016 is that its problems, the headturning, The OP fire extinguisher being cheap, we’re all problems that the entire audience experienced and could articulate

Not that doesn’t happen with H2, but I notice that a lot of the times speedrunners aren’t too specific. Like for example I only just now realised through someone’s post that one of the bugs that makes playing the game worse is luring someone via trespassing not being consistent at all. I’ve noticed that too an I hate it! But I didn’t have that articulated before because it’s much harder to tell it’s a bug than headturning.

A lot of H2 problems are like that. You didn’t notice it, but your brain did. If there was a big mega post of all the bugs that make speedrunning a chore I think casuals and non-speedrunning hardcore would be extremely sympathetic. Right now there’s a lack of communications from both IOI and the fans towards each other

I feel that a lot of this criticism is not entirely fair, especially when people invoke older titles. Fire extinguishers were too convenient, so they were addressed. People liked accidental knockouts, so they became a feature. Meanwhile, all of the stupid and broken shit from old games will remain stupid and broken forever.

Most single player games don’t get this much support post release. But, maybe, that’s the problem. We often take this support for granted, and even complain because it is not as extensive as some other titles. But pretty much all other games that get this much support have a strong multiplayer component and monetization schemes that pay for all of this.

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