The Politics Of Hitman


#533

Well its interference that will effectively allow Kwang to steal a multi-million dollar contract, which will also advantage the company further down the track by having it as a portfolio piece. Obvious side effects of that include:

  • People losing their jobs due to the company not having the capital to pay them
  • Contractors working for a guy who will cut more corners and endanger their lives and livelihoods
  • Guy who did this has more capital to do again on the next job, after all he was rewarded for it

The knock on effects of that can be people becoming criminals, perpetuating misery, etc. All so one guy can piss off his boss and another can add to his great wealth.

The Delgados are brutal because their business essentially demands it - they operate outside society’s regular protection and they have competitors who will be similarly brutal if given the opportunity. They don’t even really have the option to choose to live in poverty since they’re born into the dynasty.

Kwang and Mendola are protected by society, they are already wealthy and if they lose some of their wealth they will still have a pretty good life, etc.

So while they are less directly homicidal, they are arguably more amoral than the Delgados when you way up the other options available to them.

That’s also part of the core theme with Providence and the Shadow Client’s army.

Many of the Shadow Client’s people are publicly identified as monsters because they enact terrible crimes against establishments (kidnapping, assassination, etc). Providence operatives order worse atrocities, but are regarded as pillars of society because they are able to maintain a physical distance from it and manipulate the societal view.


#534

In my perspective, I think it’s gonna take more than this to surpass how amoral narcos are in general. In any matter and with our differences in these two targets and how bad they are, I think we can all agree Standberg takes the cake with amoral business practices, specially since his were part of an elaborated plan to impulse a military coup and all that implies. What he did was so excessive, that even Providence already had a plan to dispose of him. He is quite the avatar of how bankers are negatively seen in general.

By the way,I think Sierra is the star when it comes to Providence operatives that are both public figures and get themselves really dirty. Both her business leading to Dictator Po getting a bunch of people in a peaceful protest killed and she killing someone herself while keeping her public mask relatively intact, that takes skill.


#535

It’s funny how this argument pops up here and there in various threads. I feel like we have had it in 2 threads recently right?@Accidental-kills98 @Jarbinger

De Santis is one I never really threw into my list of innocent targets bc the virus she was working on was so terrible. However after reading most of this thread, specifically some rather artfully written posts about the other female scientist who does show morality, an idea popped into my head. Is it not possible that all the scientists working on the virus are doing so with an understanding, possibly false understanding, that this virus will be used for the good of mankind? It will be thrown into the air with the DNA of third world dictators and serial rapists ect ect. Guys and gals all over the world work for aerospace defence firms or small arms manufacturers and expect their designs to be used by the good guys. Sure if you think one of a hundred thousand man portable missiles won’t get into the wrong hands then you are a certified ding bat, but I’d say it’s ok the believe a bigger weapon such a a tomahawk missile would only be used by the good guys you make it for. Back to my point though, perhaps she is innocent?

Also I think it’s worth mentioning that I don’t think any of us on the “more innocent targets” side are asking for them all the be that way. Not even most of then. It would still have to be a hit worthy of the money it would cost to get 47. There are have been some good idea listed in the posts above. I just get tired of always feeling like we are saving the world. If K Teller and the priest and a couple others are the exceptions then fine, just, let’s have a couple more of them to keep it a bit less “Disney.”


#536

Yeah that is not how the real world works. With a steak knife and training 47 can topple any third world dictator he wants or he could kill the POTUS if he felt so inclined or he could kill two hundred people over the course of an automotive race if he wanted or he could make a steak sandwich for lunch or play five finger fillet. Just because the inherent use of the weapon or device is a positive one does not mean that it can’t be used by an homicidal maniac. Every single scientist knows what the virus does (some even discuss who they would use it on) and there is literally nothing stopping Ether’s board from just selling it to the highest bidder.

DeSantis is innocent in this whole ordeal only by virtue of just doing her job. But even then that is an excuse I can levy towards 47 and 47 is not innocent by anyone’s standards.


#537

I suppose I’m comparing desantis to those who worked on the manhattan project. They knew what they were doing and some felt hesitation, but they were doing it to win the war. There is not a war while the virus is being made, but it’s not unreasobagle to assume the virus will be sold to the US or the UK or some country like that. No one working at NorthropGrumman or Lockheed thinks the stealth bombers will be sold to the lunatic who runs N Korea. So I guess I’m saying the scientists could have that view.


#538

Are you comparing a virus that could be sold wholesale to anyone by a massive corporation created solely for profit to an act of desperation that was and is heavily regulated by world governments and international bodies and even its sole existence was an affront to its own creator?

The Trinity scientist worked for a government for governmental reasons and somewhat reasonable reasons. The Ether scientists just want a paycheck and the Ether Corporate want to have a product.


#539

I’m suggesting that they could think that way, yes. I’m not directly comparing the two, I spelled that out when I said there was no war when the ether guys were working. I’m simply trying to approach it from a different angle. Let’s put you and I in their shoes… we work for Pfizer or Merc or some other such company and the bosses decide to make something like this. Wouldn’t you assume it’s for a government contract? Maybe they were told it was? Hell, maybe it really was. Providence gets it built and sold off to a “righteous” nation BUT they steal some of it for their special purposes.


#540

Actually according to the post-Morocco dialogue the virus was also being designed for Providence Ether were going to give a shady organisation a supervirus and the game makes it clear that every Ether scientist knows what the virus is (how else would they know what to do to make it work right?).

Also what if the virus mutates and it is Ice-9 all over again? What if a competitor or some random employee steals it for their own ends? You seem to think this virus is some sort of military contract it is not it is a corporate product.


#541

I never said the scientists didn’t know what it was. LOL. I said they may be under the impression it’s going to the good guys. Would you make something like that with a bunch of scientists and tell them all it’s going to the bad guys? I would not. I’d be afraid one of them would grow a set and whistle blow. So you either tell them nothing and let them assume it’s for good (which was what I originally suggested) or just lie and say it is a military contact.


#542

But that is not the case, they are working for a corporation ergo the a smart person (like say a scientist) would know that this virus is just going to be like Viagra or Asprin but way more fatal. Ether most likely personally picked these people for lack of scruples what with the project being secret and all. They even acknowledge that the virus will be hocked to the highest bidder (bear in mind these are the same people who play “Who would you kill with the virus” if I am remembering correctly)


#543

I dont think imagining who you would use the virus on is the same as thinking it will be sold to a criminal and the highest bidder for something like this surely a government. No one can outspend governments. When someone says hocked to the highest bidder, to me that would mean China or The US or perhaps a group of counties together. Ether is, as far as we know, a reputible company that has some providence operative clandestinely operating at the top. Their entire workforce are not bad guys so I find it hard to believe the scientists would have any reason to believe it was intended for evil.


#544

Not true some of the worlds richest people have wealth higher than the GDP of some nations.

Because as we all know China would use a super-assassin virus for good and only good. China has the best intentions every time./s

What about Russia, Brazil, NGO’s. Ether can sell this virus for 250,000 USD and any sizeable government, NGO or corporate entity can use it. Even individuals could buy it at that price.

Except for the fact that they are making covert projects behind the backs of investors, animal testing, the human testing they would need to do, pollution of waterways and both times their scientists show up they are engineering super-viruses.

And? So there are good people in the company whoopty do! Doesn’t excuse the bad people in the company doing bad things and making bad things.


#545

Okay, think about the political values you would have to have to believe that building an assassination virus for a for-profit mega-corporation where the project leader is… Silvio.

How’s that working out for drone strike assassination programs? Also, those contractors work on military programs generally liaise with the military and expect it to be used under congressional approval. Ether isn’t even headquarted in Italy and anyone who’d be qualified to work on the project would be aware of the general concerns over working on potential pathogens.

I must have missed the bit in Frozen where Elsa stabs a gun through the heart with an icicle once she got a messenger pigeon confirming the gold was being caravaned to her?

The weapon to end all war through creating weapons that would make it unthinkable, explicitly for a government of a democratic super power is not quite the same as making a hidden weapon of personal assassination for a for-profit independent R&D company.

Also, the Manhattan Project is heralded as a pivotal moment for science, particularly physics, because it forced them to consider the implications of what they’re making and the decisions that other people might make using that technology.

So working on the Manhattan Project after the Manhattan Project is basically going “yeah, I don’t care about ethics or consequences”.

That’s um, that’s how a front for anything works. You have a whole bunch of people who don’t it’s a front and work their honest jobs with honest intentions - while other people go do the highly illegal things. That’s the same whether it’s for a government or a corporation.

Also, the idea is that ETHER is controlled by Providence but in such a way that not even their Board of Directors are aware of it - so some very care manipulation by Providence and far, far more precise than say… when United Fruit essentially took over whole countries to exploit their fruit growing potential, a private corporation from England colonized India and parts of Asia, or Warner Brothers entertainment when they flew in and changed New Zealand law so they wouldn’t have to pay people as much.

The problem with governments is that they’re leverageable in ways that corporations aren’t and they don’t really “bid” like corporations do - by offering large amounts of cash. They don’t have that much liquidity and what they do have is tied up in red tape, so they tend to bid by doing things like offering tax breaks, positions in government, etc.

Providence’s end game for the virus was clearly to use it in their machinations, meaning they would not have to sell it to any government since they could simply rent the use of it in exchange for massive favours or (more likely) simply use to to create changes in their benefit without a paper trail.

It’s truly baffling the amount of work people seem to want to go to in order to convince themselves that they actually did a worse thing than killing someone for profit.


#546

Wow you rocked up far later than expected. Come one dude ya gotta be quicker. I mean I already made on of the points you brought up.:joy:

Also

I thought Ether was based in South Africa? Because if they are based in Italy, are known pharmaceutic companies that are tools for an old secretive cabal of totalitarian reigeme, develop tools that help their agenda with limited casualties and have a white and sterile aesthetic then they bear more than passing resemblance to another videogame pill company…


#547

I meant to type isn’t since they are in South Africa, I just got distracted by a notification on my phone lol


#548

Still thanks to your effort I can put that little factoid on the Easter Egg or Things You Just Found Out About Hitman thread.


#549

Again I’ll retire here until a day when it pops up again. Or perpahs maybe I’ll get one more morally ambiguous target. I’m exhausted playing defence against things like “some rich people are worth more than small governments.” Yes, that’s correct. But the worlds welsthiest people can’t hold a candle to the cash flow of nations that are reeling in debt. The worlds richest guys are worth just over 100 billion each? The UK GDP is trillions. It’s just not fair to say some rich guys are worth more than governments when clearly I was speaking about the big ones. To me the virus would clearly go to them bc they can spend the most on it. I don’t think it would be cheap either. I think it would be worth the same as as a spy satellite or an aircraft carrier.

Anyway let’s agree to disagree and I’ll see you in the other threads where we are not so opposite in our thoughts.


#550

Of all the targets I always feel like Joe “Swing King” Clarence didn’t deserve it.

I thought ,besides the fact it’s like a tutorial mission, he was a good first target cause it sets up a tone of contract killing. It’s not about good or bad its about petty revenge for people that can afford it.

Sure the park ride fell apart and killed some people, but that was an accident it’s not like he meant for that to happen. I mean come on what business man hasn’t cut a few costs in safety to increase revenue?


#551

Uhh Jarbinger and I have given plenty of evidence that Joseph was in fact guilty of criminal negligence assuming this is the right thread this argument is nothing new. I mean he killed 30 people in that Ferris Wheel collapse. He lost every single dollar he ever had try to earn more money in the first place


#552

But he’s a bumbling fat white dude who cries so he must be alright!