The Politics Of Hitman


#153

No, it’s smart business, to prioritize pleasing customers with a diverse array of opinions and beliefs.

Are you not pro-diversity, Quinn? I was under the impression you were.


#154

In this example of a Bonus Mission, I imply some probability that philanthropic organizations like the “International Children’s Fund” (ie: UNICEF) may turn to assassination if they felt powerless against a sheikh/royal family member who engages in sex slavery and human trafficking.

47 is like the video game version of The Equalizer. He can be called in to settle the personal affairs of powerful people, governments, corporations.

Almost anything is game as far as I’m concerned. The main requirement is that the situation is dire enough such that “someone has to go”. Extreme enough that someone would pay to make it happen.


#155

@Quinn, I understand that you have strong liberal beliefs, and I’m sure that I share many of your ideals; I’m pro-gay, pro-transgender, pro-integration among people with compatible moral values, pro-anything-that-makes-the-individual’s-life-better-without-hurting-anyone-else.

I’m just saying that not every entertainment product should make pushing a message a top priority, because people think differently, and not even the best-intentioned message is always one hundred percent correct. Sometimes the other side has a point.

I agree with things the Left thinks and I agree with things the Right thinks, and I disagree with some things they both think. And who here is qualified to say that I’m wrong? Nobody.

And neither is a group of videogame developers who are no wiser than I am. That’s all I’m saying.

So if they insist on forcefeeding me something that I don’t believe is true, all it’s going to do is annoy me, and turn me off their game, and I don’t want to be turned off Hitman.

None of us should want anyone else to be turned off Hitman, because if enough people are turned off, then the series might sink, and then what will we all have to talk about?! We’ll have to join other gaming forums, and it’ll suck. lol


#156

I think it’s pretty unfair to expect video game designers to push agendas. Sure, they have a platform, but just because you have a platform does not mean you have to push your agenda from it. Imagine if all games pushed agendas? I’m sure you’d love it if every game had your agenda but you’d have just as many games pushing an agenda you’re opposed to. The lead on Kingdom Come Deliverance and Notch both support Gamergate. I would hate for their agendas to be pushed, it would ruin the game for me.

Also, studios probably have diverse opinions. Imagine if our favourite developers left IOI because the higher ups decided to push an agenda they disagree with? It’d suck.


#157

As someone who lives in one of the most gender-equal countries in the world, I want to share that here… in films and TV we get “good guys” and “bad guys” of all genders (including gay people). It’s just not an issue. Some shows have gay characters, some shows have none. A woman can be a witch in some fantasy show. In another show the “mother” of a heroine is a man in drag (yes… I don’t know how that works). It’s just not an issue anymore.

Openly sexual admiration both on and off TV is mostly acceptable. If a woman is dressed in a revealing manner on TV, it’s because she’s usually playing a certain kind of character, doesn’t get any comments from anyone.

Basically a lot of gender issues are really non-issues here. If IOI wrote a mission where some warlord got his hands on a nuclear weapon and one of his hostages was a gay reporter who howls like a hyena in a dungeon… the reaction here would mostly be: “OK.” :stuck_out_tongue:


#158

Minecraft love

20cubes

edit: I am not promoting Notch’s views


#159

Friends who want to stay friends don’t talk about religion or politics.


#160

Friends who will always be friends talk about religion and politics.


#161

I agree with your comment, Silverballer.

The only reason I haven’t liked it is because of this …

I don’t know anything about the developers of Kingdom Come Deliverance, and I’m fuzzy on the controversy surrounding Gamergate, so I’d need to do my research before endorsing that opinion. lol


#162

pretty fucked up stuff. Prepare to be depressed


#163

:astonished:!!!

Sounds interesting, though. lol


#164

On the flip side, I do think IO have the right to artistic freedom, and that includes their political beliefs. I was laughing pretty hard at the Revolutionary talking about how “socialism” was a failure in Scandinavia.

Reminded me of the people who call Canada, Europe, The Nordic Countries etc Socialist when none of them are lol. It felt a little preachy, but that is their right. I’m here more for the gameplay.


#165

It is absolutely their right to preach if they wish. I don’t deny it.

I’d just rather they abstained to a greater degree, for their own financial sake and for the sake of many of their fans.


#166

I don’t expect anyone to push agendas or to push a message as a “top priority”. Their priority is to make an entertaining game. What I also don’t expect, however, is for any artist to feel like they have to censor themselves or sanitise their story, dialogue or referencing to appease a bunch of thin skinned reactionaries. When you suggest satire of people like Trump must take place without “pushing an agenda”, that is not only cowardly but also a completely vacuous way of looking at humour, because satire is a way of exposing hypocrisy and stupidity through comedy. Satire without a point to make is soulless. In fact, it can’t even technically be satire.

I saw that same kind of cowardice from a senior developer on The Division 2 who was claiming the game ‘is not making any political statements’ when it is set in Washington DC during the next American Civil War, with your team fighting against a tyrannical Government. What’s the point in your narrative if you’re not using it to at least have some mild form of social commentary? EVERYTHING has that. All art is informed by its creators and interpreted by its viewers, so at the very least, it’s going to have some sort of social commentary - Why should that be stripped because some people are too sensitive?

I don’t even want to share the same digital space with cryptofascists and nationalists. No work of art, big or small, should tread on eggshells around those kind of people. When you won’t even make fun of Trump because you risk “offending” his thin skinned fanbase, that’s a problem.

Which is precisely why I never gave Deliverance my money and why I stopped paying attention to Notch. He’s just a wind up merchant now anyway, he must be really bored with his billionaire lifestyle because all he does is say provocative shit on Twitter for attention.

I’d advise you to stay the fuck away if you don’t know what it is. The whole GamerGate thing would have been a complete embarrassing joke if it weren’t for the organised harassment campaign towards a handful of individual women that made up the heart of it. At its core it was a digital hate mob using some nebulous claim about “ethics in games journalism” as a smokescreen for their bullshit. That’s all you need to know.


#361

Politics in Hitman is exclusively about cloning. US presidential elections are decided on that topic exclusively.

I’m not a big fan of cloning. According to many in this topic, we’re all the same anyway so what’s even the point!


#443

White nationalism and fascism are bad, I think we can all agree on that. Could we get back to discussing the politics of Hitman please? Before the thread gets locked down?

Anyways, Blood Money’s plot had human cloning as an important policy in the US election. The whole cloning angle has pretty much been dropped in the two new games, as you have stuff like the Ortmeyer project being referred to as ‘genetic manipulation to create supersoldiers’ but without calling it clonning outright, or the doctors at Gama apparently not knowing about cloning in their analysis of 47 as a patient.

Cloning should be a relevant political issue in the Hitman world again. Make Cloning Great Again! A good way to start would be to mention it in those news broadcasts with acclaimed GNN reporter Pam Kingsley. GNN also mentioned a climate summit taking place in Sweden. Wouldn’t mind seeing Jin Po and his son Tren as targets there. The hits on Abiatti and Murillo were great, so I’m also looking forward to killing the Po’s.


#449

I hold the opinion that unless it is set up as inherently political than politics should stay out of it. The ICA is neutral and 47 is apathetic to the world. He lives only for a paycheck or the discovery of his identity. Putting politics where it does not belong is how we get shit like All-Star Batman & Robin.

I hope they make the Po family feel real instead of the farcical cartoons Abiatti and Murillo were.


#450

Oh joy another thread to clean up several hundred posts from because people can’t help themselves.

So, while I do that, I feel it’s necessary to stress a few points:

  • 47 has literally always targeted people who are presented to him as bad guys - this is the standard for the sympathetic assassin type character and also not having your game become hate propaganda.
  • It also allows for more interesting level design since bad guys have no inherent limits on how they will defend themselves but good guys are dependent upon a system that also inherently protects the bad guys.
  • It is not possible to satirize without an agenda - satire is literally about creating something that showcases the fallacy of something in a way that can shame the supporters into changing things.
  • When accounts are created just to pick fights with people over “you probably think my politics are” then don’t reply to them, just flag them. Certainly do not humour them by playing devil’s advocate for them.
  • If you want to talk about something related, but essentially off topic - click the new thread button.

Also the games have always been incredibly political - so if you’re going to claim it’s “not ramming it down our throats” that’s either “I wasn’t paying attention” or “I agree and assumed everyone did”

Your cooperation is appreciated.


#452

That’s fair enough – but IOI’s agenda can first and foremost be to entertain the player, and then the developers are free to exaggerate and poke fun at personalities from all strata of the social, political and entertainment spectrum; nobody is forcing them to focus entirely on a particular group that they dislike, i.e. to push a political agenda. That’s the point I was making above.

People of any political, or non-political, affiliation can be lampooned for comic effect. Just don’t turn the satire (or whatever you choose to call it) into a concentrated attack on one segment of the fanbase, because, if the gaming news of 2018 is anything to go by, the results won’t be pretty.

P.S. I’m not accusing IOI of having aggressively pushed a political agenda up to this point. If they had, I’m sure that players would be unhappier than they are and Youtubers like YongYea would already be all over them. I’m just speaking generally and asking that they maintain their laudable focus on putting the fans first.

P.P.S. I’ve made some pretty long comments to effectively ask IO to keep doing what they’re doing.

Time. Well. Spent. :smile:


#453

That’s not even faintly accurate.

Every single Hitman game explores, by necessity:

  • The politics of vigilantism against criminals who have made themselves untouchable in society
  • The politics of how an organization that would do such a thing would operate
  • The politics of how other criminal organizations would operate

Codename 47’s politics included (among other things):

  • Exploitation of women in the sex trade (The Lee Hong Assassination)
  • Corruption of the police (The Massacre At Cheng Chau Fish Restaurant)
  • Exploitation and abuse of indigenous people (Find the U’wa Tribe)
  • The illegal drug trade, specifically cocaine from Columbia
  • The value of cooperative governing (The UN conference in Traditions of the Trade)
  • Nuclear arms trading and arms trading in general (Plutonium Runs Loose)
  • The rights of an individual compared to their “maker” (The Setup, Meet Your Brother)
  • Science ethics in general (The Core Plot)

Blood Money, the most “about cloning” one was inherently about:

  • The politics of trying to legislate and control science
  • Secret societies manipulating the public for personal gain

The idea that politics is not present in media such as game is a kind of anti-intellectualism that is generally used to try to silence discussion and criticism of media - so to silence the civilized conversation the forum is here to facilitate. I must therefore ask that it not continue.

That is not in any way shape or form what you said - it is some sort of strange statement implying some mysterious group forces IO Interactive to “do politics” and pretend that the creative staff at IO Interactive do not have their own political ideas and observations, or that the series as a whole has always had strong political themes.

This is a similar form of anti-intellectualism as above.

There is on such thing as a non-political person. No one is an island unto themselves, no person is divorced from humanity and hence no person can be non-political.

Lampooning is political, by it’s very nature. National Lampoon’s Christmas Vacation begins with a harsh opening about the fallacy of prioritizing symbolism over actual family bonding and the idea that certain traditions like going out for The Perfect Christmas Tree are inherently good traditions. That’s a political statement, both against the act itself and the wider assumption that traditions are inherently good.

The only way people can see it as “non-political” is when they and their political stance are sufficiently protected that they need never worry further attacks of a more direct and potentially violent nature.

If you don’t want to learn what words mean I suggest you refrain from using them, that way you can avoid the issue above.

This idea that developers have to “not upset their fans” seems to always be very once sided, because it’s spread by a particular group.

Kingdom Come: Deliverance devs have outright attacked people who are fans of historical settings and happen to also consider it important to acknowledge that brown people have always been in Europe, this made it popular with people who are not fans of historical accuracy but are fans of the fantasy of White Europe and claiming that is “realistic”. The “don’t upset the fans” crowd love it because it upsets people they don’t like.

God of War did a complete turn around on many aspects of the game, changing Kratos from an emotionally stunted avatar of destruction and conquest to a morally conflicted father trying to find a way to help the next generation and outgrow the ills he learned from the generation before. It sold like hotcakes.

Far Cry 5 shifting the political landscape to the USA and promising to explore what’s so wrong there led to a massive backlash from people who didn’t want their homeland’s injustices and ignorances showcased - it sold like hotcakes. The “fans” just went to pretending they were upset anyway.

Bioware made loud statements early on that people who didn’t think women could be heroic, or people who didn’t think that LGBT people deserved relationships would be continually disappointed by their games and have leaned into that with every game - building it up from a small studio to a giant one.

This nonsense that game developers should never upset anyone, particularly say a relatively small but extremely loud group who demand that they upset everyone else (ie fascists) is a myth that is largely spread by people who want to use it as a club to force developers to do what they want.

Well what they’re doing is making the games intensely political in a way I guarantee will make various people uncomfortable once they realise that’s what’s going on… so which is it?