The Undying Returns

which is why other game characters do the whole, you know, CHARACTER thing a lot better instead of just being this perfect player-insert that can never ever do anything wrong ever.

I’m arguing against dullness by advocating for a character that can’t just breeze through everything in his way, because that’s what a weak character is.

fucking hell, have you played RDR? john marston and arthur morgan are two great examples of how to do a protagonist right. throughout both games there’s so much shit in their way that they have to grow as a character to overcome.

here’s a question, has 47 changed in any meaningful way since codename 47? honest answer. we’re on the 7th fucking game, and 47 is exactly where he started. no thanks, he’s about as bland a character as you can get


RDR should not be lumped in with COD and AC, completely different kind of game.


Guys you’re forgetting that 47 can’t possibly do anything wrong though because he’s basically omnipotent.


Not even AC should be in the same grouping as COD. At least AC has some interesting characters.


Who would win in a fight: 47 or Vegetable?

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So why do you play Hitman?

Again… why do you still play Hitman, exactly?

When you play as 47’s “character” you’re playing as someone who is simply the best (that’s his character. That’s the role you’re supposed to be taking on. Obviously this appeals to you in some degree, as you’re STILL playing the game after 7 installments.

And bringing up “Abs 47” is irrelevant to me tbh. The opinions of “Hitman fans” where Abs was their first Hitman game; I take their opinion on 47’s character with a grain of salt. They didn’t know his true character prior, therefore they don’t see the problem with pursuing that “47 Character.”

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Dude… you have a problem with people who have opinions that differ from yours, don’t you? No need to be so condescending. Seriously, chill bro

uhhhh for the gameplay, the unique and interesting characters within the missions and the way you can insert yourself into their lives? we know IO can make good characters because they do it time and time again with the targets and NPCs. that doesn’t mean I can’t say 47 is a shit character

and that’s a lame role when there’s never anything in his way. great idea at first but all great ideas grow stale if there’s nothing to keep them fresh, just like how if we had codename 47 gameplay in 2019 nobody would still be playing and IO would have died years ago

it did, at first. but I didn’t stick around for the character. I could literally be playing as knight, stone or fucking wario and it would make no difference to me because 47 is barely even a character at this point


No, I just find your whole thing about 47 being this perfect being who can do no wrong and you won’t hear a bad word said about him absolutely ridiculous.


Playing Hitman as a different character other than 47 would make absolutely no sense… would you play a Batman game that stared Spider-Man as the main character? Ridiculous. But, if thats how you feel, that’s how you feel :tipping_hand_man:

are you just deliberately ignoring my point for fun? batman actually has a character. he has shit that gets in his way. he grows. that’s the only reason he’s still around and the only reason he’s considered one of the great superheroes.

47 literally has nothing going for him that i can’t get in a more thought-provoking, well-written and interesting way in another franchise


People can talk bad about him all they want lmao I don’t care… I’m just pointing out how 47’s character was envisioned to be. That’s it, and that’s all. I’m not saying he’s perfect as in I view him as this “God” lol that’s just his character; an engineered clone, born to kill and not F’ up

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“Okay” :slightly_smiling_face:

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The idea of the opposing nemesis is timeless:

If 47 is the ultimate killer, he was bound to meet the ultimate target one day…Someone who seems impossible to kill.

That this said nemesis is played by a popular actor with some name pull could be a bonus for the franchise as long as each re-appearance is new.


I’m prone to think that the beginning of the video was a hint as to what’s going on. They showed ‘The Undying’ and then ‘The Politician’, but we’ve had 2 other ETs like ‘The Revolutionary’ and ‘The Appraiser’, but you didn’t see them (and this is excluding the Legacy ETs obviously). So a body double is what I believe they’re hinting at, and less likely to be a clone or robot/cyborg (a’la Kronstadt Technologies). But perhaps that remains to be seen.

It’ll be interesting to see what they’ve come up with as to the numerous times he’s “reappeared”.

Huh, did you forgot that Ort-Meyer did send 47 after Janus but he failed. Well, he did kill Janus later (albeit in different circumstances) but anyway I really do looking forward for the potential return of Mark Faba.

Thought I posted it here, must’ve been in the general roadmap thread; there are a few possibilities:

  1. THAT was the real Mark Faba, and somehow 47 didn’t kill him. This is the biggest copout, as 47 is a professional assassin, and this ET was specifically marketed as the player being able to choose dozens and dozens of ways to kill him… they can’t come up for an excuse for every single method… and they can’t pick a ‘canon’ kill method when there is no kill method on their stats that was a majority, any method they pick, 80% of the players will go “What the hell, but I didn’t do that… I picked a method where he actually died…”. So I’m just going to ignore this option altogether due to all the flaws of it.

  2. Mark Faba knew he was going to be targeted in Miami and sent a clone/double in his place. I don’t like the idea of a body double, because as far as I’m aware even if surgery exists to make someone look identical to another (As was shown in The Politician), the technology doesn’t exist to make someone’s voice identical to another persons (Perhaps also as shown in The Politician)… so this means either the FAKE Mark Faba is voiced by Sean Bean, and the REAL one is actually voiced by someone else (They will not do this, as it ruins the point of having Sean Bean), or they’re just going make them both Sean Bean and not give an explanation (This would be a bit of a cop out in my opinion). If it was a clone-- not a double —then this could open up an interesting story for them to explore. This option means it’s ICA who screwed up, not 47, as they falsely identified the person you killed as being the real Mark Faba; I’m fine with this. On top of the maybe-clone storyline, it opens up a storyline on how did the Faba know the ICA was going to assassinate him? Is there a mole in ICA? Do they have to become a target? Is a larger rival involved?

  3. Mark Faba is a ridiculously advanced robot, even though we’ve never seen anything this advanced in the series, it’s sort of nabbing a bit of the whole Fallout 4 ‘Synth’ thing, and such a robot is way far ahead of the can-only-turn-and-shoot robots in the Kronsdadt showroom (Yes, I know apparently dialogue somewhere said they have some better stuff, but… that much better??). If he’s a robot then that was him in Miami but you didn’t kill him, as almost any kill method could be explained away… Poison doesn’t affect robots… snapping neck doesn’t kill a robot who doesn’t have a brain stem like human’s do… you drowned him? Robots don’t need oxygen… yadda yadda ya. I don’t like this option; it also opens up a whole storyline of who is his creator, who’s giving him orders? etc. I could tolerate it even though I don’t like it, but then by definition if he’s impervious to all your kill methods… how the hell are you meant to properly kill him? Are we going to have an ET where all you can do is push him into the metal smelter in Mumbai or else you fail? That’s not going to be a very good ET. Are you going to be given a special EMP gun just for the ET? Well that takes away the whole “choose how you kill the target” option, and also we’ve had EMP devices in the first ET of Mark Faba, and while no one would have thought to use it on him, if they did I’m 100% certain it would have done nothing to him. So might be a bit unfair to say “EMP didn’t do anything to him the first time around, but it does now”

  4. No explanation. Yeah, don’t do this one IO.

Which do you prefer they pursue?

  • 1 - That was really him, somehow you failed
  • 2A - Body Double
  • 2B - Clone
  • 3 - Highly sophisticated android
  • 4 - No explanation
  • I don’t like any of these choices… is there something else IO can come up with?
  • I’m still hoping IO does NOT bring him back, despite the tease

0 voters

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Maybe it’s like Parchezzi and just a clone. No sense in being the same as the one in Miami.

If we’re going to say that 47 failed, then I have no problem with that since there were other ICA agents that also verified he was killed. It’s not a fault of 47, it’s just a… catch to ‘The Undying’.

Yet, we’re still lacking some nuance to this situation. Are the bodies that were “Confirmed killed” by other ICA agents still wherever they were taken to? Like a grave or morgue? Or are those bodies (or the same body) missing from those places?

Just something to ponder in the meantime.

I just thought.
Do you remember Resident Evil movies? There was some kind of clone factory where Ellis was grown.
I don’t remember details but they were killng Ellis’ clones hundrends of times for training and perfection purposes.
If this is Undying comeback, maybe the backstory of this is some kind of Ellis’ one?
Ether or Kronshitdt or other huge company has a secret lab for making clones and The Undying just thier client?
While writing this I thought another thing. If this all can take place, maybe some day we’ll have a mission to destroy this lab and it may well be one of the expansion locations/missions?