Unpopular Opinions about Hitman V2

What on earth are you talking about, when you legshot and knock someone out they are laying on the ground awake and you come up and punch them in the face, which gives them plenty of time to see the face of the person who is about to punch them, which is vastly more useful for identifying someone than someones arms are.

So what was the actual reason then?

About hitman mechanics, something i know a few things about. Half of the time they are with their face down to the floor, not seeing anything. Which is less than regular subdueing. But don’t see you bitching about that not losing your sa. So selective.

Inconsistency + majority of the players not understanding how it exactly worked.

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What I am arguing with is the mechanics. It should not work that way. Yes it may be about 50/50 if they fall face first or backwards when they are leg shot, that is how it currently works yes. I will accept your assertion on that statement since you do in fact know the game mechanics better than I since I do not play the game over and over again trying to find the best possible routes like you tend to do. Nor am I speedrunner so I don’t ever do any of the techniques the speedrunners use so I will have to take your word for it when you say

So my question becomes, because half the time they fall face forward, the times when they fall backwards and can clear as day see your face should be counted as silent assassin? and that to you is the same level as identifiable as them seeing your arms despite most of the outfits 47 can wear have long sleeves?

I am not debating how it currently works, I am saying how it should work.in that one regard. It makes sense that in reality, shooting someone in the leg and punching them in the face makes you either far more identifiable since they could have easily seen your face in most circumstances, or as they lay there knocked out, they could bleed out and cause them to die if left unattended for too long.

This should break Silent Assassin, not that it currently does.

Do you have any source for it? I am not questioning you on it I just thought they refused to put out an actual answer on the subject so if they did say something I would like to know what it was they said so I can correct myself. Because I was under the assumption that they refused to talk about it.

Why should a gameplay-focused design decision be changed to a realism-focused design decision here? In the end performing legshots is not a realistic thing to do anyway.

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I am not saying that leg shots shouldn’t work, I am saying they shouldn’t get you Silent Assassin. It seems all to likely that you should be seen, or that the npc could bleed out and die due to the legshot which would also ruin the Silent Assassin rating.

Again this is just my (clearly unpopular) opinion on the matter of legshots. I think they kinda ruin the immersion for me, which is why I never do em. But I don’t think shooting a non target in the leg and punching them in the face should get you a Silent Assassin rating since you are shooting a non target potentially being seen by the npc when you go to knock them out. Both being seen and killing a non-target usually cause a loss of Silent Assassin, I don’t see why just because the AI is being abused and you knocked em out before the AI started its next task means you didn’t violate the SA rating.

Again its a change I would like to see, not that it is or will be changed.

I am still very sure you like to see this change because you think it is unrealistic how legshots work for SA.

As long you don’t want to explain why a mechanic that you never use (!) should change this probably needs no discussion. I get why you dislike it, and I get that you like things you dislike to be different. I just think we others understand you better if you’d explain why realism is more enjoyable here.

Would you use legshots if they void SA?

As funny as that is, I don’t think it’s possible to see hands of the person who’s choking you from behind.

No because they void SA, I mean I would probably do it in Kill Em All or murder spree runs just to keep people I am going to kill anyways from running away.

Again I am not saying that people shouldn’t be able to play how they want to play, but I do think that some things kind of break the immersion of the game (for me) make it kind of annoying.

For example, lets say that IO put out a challenge pack that is particular difficult to do, and I can’t for the life of me figure it out on my own no matter what angle I have tried to come at it. So I turn to the youtubers guides on how to do the challenge pack, and every single one of them are utilizing legshots or wallbangs, or flying explosives, and no one is showing a simpler method I would never be able to do the challenge because Ill never be able to get the wallbang, or the flying explosion to work nor would I want to do legshots since I don’t think that should be the intended way to get the job done.

I think as an advanced skill for the advanced players its a great for them to be able to use, but I consider myself a casual player despite sinking more hours into the game than a typical casual player, and there should always be a user friendly intended way of completing every objective in the game. The people who play on another level like @Fortheseven or any of the other amazing speedrunners who play the game in a way that just astonishes me will always find the alternative route that will always amaze me with the ingenuity of runs. I think if the legshot thing was removed or became a SA breaker, they would find another method.

Just my personal play style just happens to be more realistic. I don’t use many of the tricks people use because for me they break immersion. But I understand not all players play that way. I just think there is alternate ways to achieve the same goal the legshot provides without actually shooting a non-target. This is a question mainly for the speedrunners but I wonder isn’t a throwable melee faster than shooting someone in the leg and knocking themout? Maybe not if there is a group of people you need legshot and KO but in a 1 person case wouldn’t a throwable melee be better?

I agree, and it should be like this for the main content. Some challenge (packs) from IO are sadly not well made. Like bringing the band members in Santa Fortuna into the house they normally never enter. I made fun of that challenge by exploiting a glitch trice to succeed. Not only succeed but also with no KO and SA.

I can tell you that if a glitch or weird gameplay thingie is the only way to do something SA, it is very likely IO did not intend to make it doable with SA. The fix of that should not be to “fix” the glitchy ways to do it SA but to make it doable SA in regular ways.

And to be honest, being able to drown people in toilets that were not overflowing before is (for me) WAY more unrealistic than the idea that a pain-clenched mind is able to spot someone. The way electrical kills work are more forgivable. Not because they are more realistic (they aren’t) but because understanding electricity is less common than understanding drowning. :smirk:

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Why not? Because you deem it to be realistic? Not a good reason.

Yes, no matter how they are falling it should retain SA. Because gameplay. It’s a risky move, and risky moves should come with rewards.

No, even less than subdueing. If you are fine with keeping sa while subdueing, you should be fine with legshots.

And again, that really is not a good argument. HITMAN is about fun, fluid gameplay, not realism.

Yes, my irl meetings and discussions with the devs.

So follow your own advice regarding the phone: don’t like it? don’t use it then. Or is this another case of you being very selective.

Here’s one: non target objective can work well if there are multiple ways to get it done (10+)
Good example: identify the maelstrom
Bad example: getting data in New York

But there are multiple ways to do in NY. The vault or the disks of the target + VIPs.

Bad example is the virus in Sapienza. It only became better because of the garage stalactite glitch.

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Well its not much better but you can use the dongle from the lady scientist to destroy the virus without having to shoot it, or get completely up close and personal with it.

Honestly I prefer NY data disks over the Maelstrom and the evidence from Whittleton Creek. Maelstrom is only ok because once you know what you are doing you can by pass the clue collection and just kill the guy you know to be the Maelstrom. But the Whittleton Creek one is kinda tedious, I think honestly more tedious than the Virus.

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I will say just this, to your wall of text.

Electric phone is annoying, because it feels like a slap to the face of players’ creativity and skill.

All the tricks that were nerfed were way harder to execute than electric phone, while being less OP. Even breaching charge+ fire extinguisher had collateral damage risk.

And stop trying to pretend this is about realism.

Wallbanging and many other tricks weren’t nerfed due to realism, they were nerfed due to game balance. Why else does wallbanging exist in sniper assassin mode but not regular sandbox in Hitman 2018? Why else would IOI reset leaderboards after nerfing Lancer in 2016? Is it “unrealistic” to have two breaching charges? Lmao no, it’s a balance thing.

If balance wasn’t a thing in this game we might as well give Kalmer infinite ammo, or give 47 infinite health, or allow all bodies to be found without losing SA.

The line needs to be drawn somewhere. And the issue is that currently the balance line is inconsistent and makes no sense.

In my opinion the phone is stronger than anything that was nerfed, so all nerfs should be reverted and then some, if the phone is where we set the bar for balance (and a very low bar that is).

IOI can’t just half-ass it and overly nerf some things and keep some things OP.

But then again, IOI also allows tranq glitch to exist, as well as weapon lure glitch (ironically stronger than fetch trick).

The way I see it, IOI just introduced the phone without thinking through the consequences.

And now they just can’t be bothered to fix it.

#Lastpatchlol

That’s a better one. Still though, I’ve found that even the people hold the disks can be pretty limited to approach

IOI gives away the tutorial and some levels, including selling Hitman as Xbox game pass or PS plus to increase sales, most of which are to new, casual players. Frankly, IOI are more concerned with increasing their player base to make money than to prioritize game mechanics for expert players.

From playtesting, IOI knows that the new, casual player doesn’t often stick with Hitman and upgrade to the complete game because of the steep learning curve.

Thus, IOI spent time and improved all their tutorial levels. They introduced the emetic detonator, emetic gun, emetic detonator, the electrocution phone etc. in Hitman2. These provide straight forward tools to attract the casual non-expert players for straight forward kill opportunities.

The other change IOI had tried to implement wasmake 47 a bullet sponge “TANK 47”. This was quickly nerfed.

The wallbanging, fetch trick, legshot punch, fire-extinguisher-breaching charge kill, are the kind of tactics that can be one or more of : a) exploitation of game mechanics that were not intended to be allowed by IOI; b) often overused approaches, breaking the game as it was intended by IOI; c) used more by expert players; d) approaches that are not intuitive for the casual player; e) approaches that are outside the realm of possibility even within the super-spy artificial world of Hitman.

Time-limited Elusive targets was conceived in a marketing approach that was appropriate for the episodic release of Hitman. It was expected that players would be incentivized to buy the complete game, to access the time-limited content. This marketing approach failed. Most players didn’t purchase Hitman as episodes. Most bought the complete game upon release of HITMAN2016.

Elusive targets were conceived and implemented by online director Torben Ellert for HITMAN2016. Torben left IOI before the release of Hitman 2.

I have a sense that ghost mode and elusive targets are ideas that were tested, but are not worth the time and effort to expand into Hitman 3.

Sniper maps are popular and are cheap in time and effort to make. I expect pre-orders of Hitman 3 is associated with another sniper map.

because these bugs are going to remain unfixed, i don’t really play this damn game anymore.

I don’t fully agree with this. Because they kind of high level went over all it takes to make these sniper maps and it is kinda time consuming. They have to create a map that works from a single focal point, create a whole set of AI parameters that work for these specific sniper maps as well as creating new assets for the sniper maps, plus music, and everything else. Its basically the same as making a brand new sandbox level. Where as ghost mode, the maps already exist, and the code for making ghost mode function the way it does is already built. They just need to adapt it to make it work for each level. The problem with Ghost Mode from my chair, would be that it doesn’t seem popular to warrant the effort it would take to make it work in each map. I honestly think that Sniper is the same case, that its not popular enough to warrant making entire levels for it.

Especially when the main concern people had with HITMAN 2 (besides the bugs) was that the “extras” from this season (ghost mode, sniper, special assignments) were all lack luster and felt like they detracted from the core maps with their inclusion. People have been saying that they would rather give up Elusive Targets, Ghost Mode, or Sniper maps or whatever in exchange for more work and polish going into the core game. Obviously not everyone feels this way, but it does seem like a lot do.

I myself would rather give up Elusive Targets, Ghost Mode, and Snipers if it means we can get level designs like we got in HITMAN 2016 and maybe some special mission assignments like Patient Zero.

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The major issue of a typical Hitman level is that players can do absolutely anything from any position on the map at anytime, and the developers have to have to iterate and bug fix game breaking issues resulting from player choice at all times.

Ghost Mode is even worse to bug fix, because there are two players simultaneously doing what they want to do at any time in a Hitman level, plus they have to code for AI responses to two different players choices at all time. It is pretty amazing that the PS4/XboxOne has fast enough computing power to carry this out.

The player is fixed in a Sniper Map, and the player is limited to just shooting bullets. It is so much easier to code and bug fix, as it is just about AI response to bullets coming from a single location. There are event triggers in Sniper Maps which are either time dependent or in response to sniping.

So yes – it is likely that IOI will release future Sniper Maps. To keep it fresh and interesting, IOI in the last one, the Siberian prison map, they played around with explosion triggers and fire. Next time, they will try something else.

I have a few major problems with sniper maps.

  1. Sniper map mechanics are weird. For one thing why are accident kills counting as body found? And why are infinite bullet distractions allowed? The mechanics should be closer to the sandbox mode (like the Vector).

  2. There is too much padding. Seriously, why are there like 20 targets? That’s what makes it a grind. Some people would argue that padding is needed to make the mission longer, but that leads me into my next point…

  3. Well designed sniper contracts don’t need padding. Targets that are within sight of witnesses, or need a particular setup to kill etc will add more than enough challenge.

As an example, I ask you to consider Kevin Rudd’s sniper contracts: The DEFINITIVE, COMPLETE Sniper Contract Thread

5 targets each, normal sandbox mechanics, and yet I guarantee it would take you a while to complete these and figure out the puzzle to get SA.

Padding and weird rules for sniper maps don’t make up for poor level design, pure and simple.

My idea for future sniper maps

They should be like normal sandbox mode, except you are on an elevated roof/ platform and you can’t leave this platform (again, similar to the Vector). Unlike the Vector, targets are not randomized. And the contract is lengthened not due to dumb padding, but due to smart level design and good puzzle creation. Again look to Kevin Rudd if you don’t think it’s possible.

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