Same shit, different pile, bud. You’re just stating semantics, and on that technically, I guess you’re right, but that doesn’t deter from the fact that the mindset and approach isn’t the same. Your objective is still time but the criteria is only different, and one of them doesn’t necessarily mean it’s focus was style, it just so happens to come up with that due to the solution.
As I said, style even comes out naturally, and doing something isn’t just for style but for the challenge and instead of remaking the contract just so you can be tops on the leaderboards due to your kill conditions, it still doesn’t deflect the end result of doing it for time.
Well, we’ll have to agree to disagree. From my perspective, you’re shoe horning your overtly broad view of speedrunning to “fit your argument.”
I don’t think they are even remotely the same.
Well if you like to disagree with facts, by all means.
What perspective is that? Do you even do it? If not, then you don’t have a relevant perspective. If you do, then you should understand what I’m saying.
Think whatever you like, bud, but if you want to know the facts then get the information from others as opposed to coming up with your own conclusion based off of 0 knowledge/experience on the topic if you don’t do it. You don’t see me giving my opinion to nasa on flying into space when I’m no astronaut.
As I said, I don’t need to make a new “specific” contract just to do the exact same thing, which is a speedrun. You just going off of the technically of leaderboards, which I already agreed on that, but that doesn’t deter from the mindset and approach of a speedrun. If this wasn’t hitman, then I’d say the same thing you are, but in hitman, the openness of the game allows me to do it my way and the end result doesn’t define the approach/mindset.
Even if I’m 50th place on the leaderboard, it’s still a speedrun based on wanting to do it the fastest of my abilities, it just so happens to come up with “stylistic” end result.
Facts? You’re purposefully broadening the basic definition of “speedrunning” to fit your argument. Style? What does style have anything to do with speedrunning except just to fit your argument?
Also, what is up with your antagonistic tone? We’re simply discussing speedrunning as it pertains to Hitman and why folks do it. Style running while it may have some connection to speedrunning isn’t inherently speedruning at all.
You consider it as speedrunning. I do not.
ONLY because I don’t need to make a contract specifically to “determine” whether it’s a speedrun or not. For example, if a contract is Any/Any and I decide to make it accidents only and it ends up not being the fastest time possible but would be if the contract was specifically played out to be accidents only, why do I need to MAKE that contract “official” just to “prove” it’s a speedrun? The approach and mindset is the same. I’m not broadening anything. You’re taking what speedrunning actually is and closing the door on it based on semantics. I told you on the technically, I already agreed with it before you even mentioned anything, but in hitman, it CAN mean more due to its openness.
On another hand, if someone does a speedrun and CANT get the fastest time due to their inability from skill/experience/whatever, how is that still not defined as a speedrun, even if they went with kills that made it stylish but they still thought it could be the fastest even though it’s not? That’s what you’re not understanding.
It’s like you’re saying style can’t come from speed and I’m saying it does even if style isn’t the intended way. It just comes naturally out from it a lot of the times.
I just explained it above. So you’re saying speedrunning can’t include style? So you’re telling me sniping the politician from the beach isn’t stylish? And it’s not my arguement, it’s THE argument. And in order to get THE argument, you have to understand the logic behind it, which is why perhaps you eluded my question: do you even speedrun? If not, your argument is irrelevant. If so, how are you missing the point?
You mean the one you’re misinterpreting?
I have no tone. Literally just stating things. How you take it is not what you’re assuming I’m giving but I assure you, I don’t have tone. Tone can be misconstrued over text anyways so disregard your assumption. I’m just straight forward and to the point but that does not mean I have a tone.
Can you please tell me if you speedrun or not? I’m curious to know.
And just because “I consider” Neil Armstrong’s first walk on the moon not a real accomplishment, it doesn’t mean it’s not.
So consider whatever you like. You’re free to do so.
No, where am I saying that? Speedrunning is straight up: the most efficient run as possible. Style - nice if it’s in the speedrun - is in no way a requirement of the run. Style is also an “interpretation” whereas speed is a metric.
I guess I’m not even sure what your argument is. After reading what you wrote above, I don’t even understand what your primary argument is. What are you saying? Are you talking about constraints to speedruns? Because constraints are not “styles” but are simply “constraints.” That said originally, my interpretation of your argument was that: style running was another form of speedrunning, which IMHO is a load of crap. So apologies if I misunderstood what you’re saying.
Where did I say you said that? I went off of:
I was not saying you were saying that. I was asking if you meant that hence why it was in question form.
Exactly what I’ve said hence:
Here I confirmed it’s about time technically.
Correct, hence where I said:
So does that not say the same thing you just said?
Correct, hence where is said:
(Diana’s voice): THAT is what I said.
And I already said technically it’s right.
So you just repeated the same thing I said.
No, I’m talking about mindset and approach. Doesn’t matter if someone does it slower, if they do it the fastest they see possible, it can still be considered a speedrun. It doesn’t need to be top 3 to be considered that. A speedrun can also be determined on someone’s skillset and not necessarily someone’s end result. For example, if I do a run that just so happens to be flashy and stylish, it doesn’t mean I didn’t have the intent to do the contract as fast as possible to my abilities. There’s also different levels in speedrunning.
As I said, hitman allows me to broaden the word, not that I am just making it up for argument’s sake. I already said I know the TRUE definition of it, but it can be expanded upon within THIS game.
I just simply said that style can ALSO be the effects from speedrunning, and a lot of the times it does. But then again, style is in the eye of the beholder. So no point in arguing there. Lol.
You can make style running intertwine with speedrunning by creating the contract instead of using the default parameters/contract. The end result joust ends up being stylish because the most efficient run is stylish.
And again you avoided my question. I guess that actually answers it then.
I still don’t understand any of your arguments at all. You’re constantly doing an end around on your arguments and still broadening the essential definition of Speedrunning. You continue to quote me but are not proving anything except continue on your feedback loop argument.
But whatever what you think dude. Essentially, at this point, you’re arguing about absolutely nothing.
The best I can get out of your argument is:
If you think that you’re doing a speedrun, then you’re doing a speedrun.
What does that even mean?
Again with this shit? Seriously? Take it to PM’s.
Fair enough man, I just happened into this thread and read some of the comments, and then started to scratch my head. So many arguments on here made absolutely no sense at all. My bad in continuing it on.
Hmm, I don’t exactly speedrun Hitman. It’s more like I…adapt to the world’s clock. Like I just finished a contract in Paris:
I had to kill the stylist with the scissors behind him. Roughly when starting within the Red Carpet and having to lure him because the a model will invesigate the gurgling sound —I had to bring him closer to the box—takes around 1 minute.
Then the tech crew guy working among the stairs is my next target and had to throw him off the railing. By the time I get there, 1:28. Then I need to get a Cicada disguise. I found out that the closest guy won’t be in a position where I can lure him until 1:50.
After that I need to subdue the Cicada guys that will be near Mr. Jawline Kruger. Well, I don’t have a good time stamp on that because I got frustrated the further along I went lol. But I had to go around Kruger’s photo shoot to not trigger it so I trigger the big guys’ walk cycle on it’s own.
All-in-all it’s more like adapting to convenience than speed-running for me if that makes any sense to anyone.
Is it roleplaying when you speedrun it because Diana says “the clock it ticking…”?
Is it speedrunning when Diana says: “whatever you’re going to do do it NOW.”
Of course not, you don’t speedrun. This isn’t Mario brothers and your trying to beat the entire game in the fastest time. I’m talking about hitman and in hitman, you CAN have different variations in speedrunning. It all depends on intent and mindset.
Yes and no. I already told you MULTIPLE times that technically speedrunning is only time. But doing something stylistic doesn’t reject you from speedrunning. Again, in hitman, parameters change.
Because you don’t understand what speedrunning can mean in hitman. I already stated what you said way before you replied to me with your first post.
Well if you have 0 understanding of what speedrunning is and how it can still be stylish or change the contract parameters myself and make it stylish while still doing it in a speedrun, what can I expect?
Sure. You can use that, because speedrunning is doing the contract as fast as you can do it. If nobody is on the leaderboard and you are convinced that’s the fastest way possible to do it, is it not a speedrun by intent?
Everyone who enters that speedrun competition will do just that. Some will be faster than others. The slowe ones will still have he intent in doing it as fast as THEY can. What are you basing speedrunning on, just the fastest time? As I said, what if there is no time yet registered and you’re convinced that’s the fastest it can be done. I’ve seen it happen so many times, even with myself when I was newer to the game. So unless you actually do speedrunning, your opinion is irrelevant as clearly you don’t understand what any of this means.
How would you know this?
Really? So, if I decide that I’m doing a speedrun, and it takes 2 hours. Is that still a speedrun? In my mind, it isn’t.
Where did I claim that doing something stylish negates something being a speedrun? Can you show me, because I never made that claim. In fact I said:
Again, if I think I’m doing a speedrun, and it takes 2 hours. That’s still a speedrun? I do not consider that to be the case. It goes like this:
If I go to a Chinese restaurant and go with the mindset of having tacos but eat fried rice, I’m still having tacos!
Again, I’ve gone far too long on this silly argument. Have a nice day and the final word(s) mate.
Because I’ve asked you specifically to answer that question yet you continue to elude it. So can you answer it now? Do you speedrun? Simple yes or no will suffice. If you say yes, I’d like to see some vids of it so you don’t just BS me.
I took 58 mins to drop the moose in the consulate on the prisoner in Marrakech for silent assassin, suit only. At the time I did it, I considered it a speedrun because I was doing it as fast as I could see it possible based on my skillset primarily. (Now is a totally different story). In case you don’t know, the prisoner has to be ko’d then dragged from the school to the consulate so in order to do that, you have to KO a crap load of NPCs so you don’t get spotted dragging the body there. So how long something takes isn’t what makes it a speedrun, it’s the intent to make it the fastest is what does.
Players were going in and luring the Politician out from the house and exiting fast. Another player went in, used the Tranq Gun on two guards and shot her as she walked down the steps. Another player sniped her from the beach for the fastest time. How are all three not speedruns if their approach to the contract was all the same (to get the fastest time)? Because how does one know if their time will be the fastest when they don’t see all possibilities and they believe theirs is the fastest? You’re missing the point what speedrunning is IN HITMAN, hence the title of the topic. Not speedrunning by the word because in hitman it can elaborate on it and we as players can change the parameters of a contract and still make it a speedrun.
Never said you said that. I was just stating a fact.
2hrs doesn’t mean it’s not a speedrun. If 2 hours is the fastest time possible, wouldn’t you still consider that a speedrun if you are trying to do it as fast as possible and you’re convinced that’s it’s the fastest time possible? What if 500 players played that contract and the fastest time is 2hrs and the slowest is 5hrs. Is that not a speedrun? Again, I’ve seen it happen many many times, with myself and with others.
In hitman, the sandbox gives the ability to never know if it’s the fastest possible solution sometimes. It’s just the way it goes. And I don’t need to make a new contract just to “label” it a speedrun, hence if I do the showstopper mission, fire axe only, while the fastest set time in that Any/Any contract will be faster.
idk, can’t find on the website. Probably with integrated graphics kappa
Having the last word doesn’t mean you won. Since the two of you are so passionate, how about meeting up for lunch to continue the argument that nobody cares about? I think everyone in here would appreciate not having to facepalm anymore.
The point/purpose of hitman is freedom of approach and creativity, in which speedrunning fits perfectly well. But
What a terrible and false analogy lol.
Nope, since again, the style of speedrunning fits perfectly within freedom of approach and creativity.
I seriously doubt it.
No that is your own little subjective fun.
In order to properly speedrun you have to spend a huge amount of time playing and learning the game first. In general speedrunners have spend a lot more time in Hitman than any other style.
Taking your sweet time and just enjoy the ambience isn’t the point of hitman either. Again, it’s about freedom of approach and creativity.