Why dont targets defend themselves!?

While I’m not saying that if there was a target defending themselves I would hate it, I’m never going to say them not defending themselves lessens the experience in any way.

Like I said, and from my point of view, the core gameplay design of Hitman changed from a third person action game to a sort of puzzle-adventure, if I was to exaggerate a little bit, and with that, the level design (and NPC reactions) had to change too. Arguably, Hitman and Hitman 2 feels kind of gamey, probably more than any other Hitman before. And with that, the narrative itself changes; and targets now feel much more personal and exploitable through your actions rather than just having the binary choice of silent and loud kill. If I managed to get my point across.

That said, I’ll stress it again - while I’m not opposed to idea target’s being able to shoot me - the contrary, that they’re not able to, isn’t making a difference for me.

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I just wouldn’t call the usual main-target AI “nothing”. It got tweaked alot and if you played very old ETs like The Deceivers you can notice how many little upgrades they got. Sure that is not what you want but it is still a good system that sadly is not always fitting the targets.

I still chose well tested systems over makeshift AI like that PS4 exclusive target. If you really want usual guard targets, there is the contract mode. If you want really advanced targets that fight back, it is worth to keep on wishing it. Just don’t underestimate how long it will take. :wink:

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“47 be careful. The target is extremely dangerous”
Runs screaming like a little girl when it see’s you with scissors in hand.

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Blood Money NPC: ”Don’t shoot! I’m innocent.”

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I totally get you what you mean, and I also choose quality over content, thats not for debate here! I just dont really saw a difference between the target AI, and the regular AI. They run away, talk to guards, the only difference I see is that they have special waypoints to go or follow, if you do certain things, like the mission stories or safe rooms.

Codenam 47 NPC: “He’s packing, he’s paaaacking!”

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:joy::joy::joy:

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because it such a hard for realize in 2k19 -in early 2000s it was alien technology and IOI lost it(

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I don’t like that people in this game are so helpless, in older hitman games the targets would fight back, civilians could punch you and even pick up weapons dropped by dead guards and start shooting you.

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In recent documentaries they mention that Paris was the mission that was most worked on - and was supposed to set the foundation for the rest of the game - arming Viktor Novikov and Dalia Margolis probably didn’t feel right, so they just ran with the same code for the rest of the game, and Hitman 2.

It’s one of the biggest let-downs in my opinion. Hitman is a game if any, that has the opportunity to be very creative with their targets. I often think back on Masahiro Hayamoto - giving additional suspense knowing that you have to approach your target silently, or things will get more complicated.

Although I would personally like to see targets being like mini-bosses with each target having a unique set of defense - a simpler solution would simply be to make appropriate targets being able to take cover and shoot back.

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Idk, I just keep imagining if the prison level wasn’t a Sniper mission. What if it was a sandbox level that you could roam around in?

Could you imagine approaching Roman and him curling up in a corner begging for his life? Haha I can’t!

I’d expect him to be aggressively violent looking for a fight. It would probably end up being a 47 VS Sanchez 2.0 though but still :rofl:

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it’s too bad the current animation system is very static. there’s only one animation set to each melee attack from each weapon, and the unique melee animations are exclusive to cutscenes.
hopefully for H3, we can have more melee animations. that way we can have more unique target body-types.

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So, we don’t need the combat system at all
Just because 47 is a silent assassin
Did you think about that?

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He would curlling up in a corner throwing insults at 47.:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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But I feel like IOI have seen this feedback item enough times to consider it…

They did mention that after “World of Tomorrow” they made sure that the New York Bank’s Steal-the-Data objective had multiple methods to complete primarily to remove the need to go to the vault.

Though I’m willing to bet that the vault was the most popular method during first attempts. I mean, who doesn’t want to visit the vault? :smiley:

What would be interesting is if Sean Rose for example had different ways of defending himself depending on what’s available: He’d go for an Explosive if he’s in the demo test area, then an MP5 maybe if he’s at the barn?

However, if all targets in Colorado were designed similarly, say Berg would toss the poisonous chemicals at you in his shed, etc. Then yes, might be authentic… but would it still be fun?

That’s another question really.

IOI are correct I think in pointing out that the gameplay loop of HITMAN pays off when you’ve “checkmated” the Target and you were the one who figured it all out. If you went through that only for a Target to blast you away could detract from that.

Unless maybe if defence was situational or is only afforded if the kill is delayed (eg: Sean Rose may kick your gun away if you point it at him too long, you stand too closely, and you don’t fire).

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The Ai doesn’t understand Locked Doors that aren’t disguise specific (Hokkaido) It understands the doors in hokkaido and doesn’t walk through unless they are in the correct uniform

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Pffft… now I know you’re joking :smirk: I’m not saying Roman would back down, he’d probably be shitting bricks, he just wouldn’t let 47 know that haha

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Seems like I waste of time when only like one to five targets have any sort of excuse to fight you. And I only count two. And not to mention half the targets in the next season will be rich old people. What are they going to do break their ribs at 47?

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On the contrary, what if it is they who could break 47’s ribs?

:stuck_out_tongue:

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Many people bring up Alma from hawkes bay but she commits suicide when you kill everyone except her

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Making targets fight back has traditionally created a lot of problems.

Some of the targets in Codename 47 felt more like traditional video game bosses than people who you were going to assassinate and there was a comical difference in difficulty and engagement between sniping Pablo or Lee Hong vs engaging them one to one.

Silent Assassin had the problem that while some of the targets did fight back, they were woefully unimpressive until you ran into Sergei who suddenly could soak multiple shots and could fight on even after being chloroformed or strangled (which was admittedly hilarious)

In Blood Money you could lure out some of the targets from behind their security by aggravating them (either by doing a tiny bit of damage or just letting them see you trespass) and let you assassinate them. It’s a common strategy in speed runs and occasionally hilarious, but did ultimately undermine the rest of the work in level design, etc.

Lastly, if we just limit ourselves to the latest iteration - there would be a lot of discrepancies and potential confusion over which characters fight back and how effectively. Even on say, Colorado.

Sean Rose is an amoral bomb maker - so would he know how to handle himself in a gunfight? Maybe, maybe not… most of his work means never getting up close with people so he might not even know how to switch off the safety.

Ezra Berg is a former Mossad agent, which means he was probably in the IDF and almost certainly has some military experience. He’d certainly be able to shoot back but given he’s working as an interrogator on a heavily protected campsite - would he even bother having a carry piece?

Penelope Graves is a former Interpol profiler… so maybe she has some combat training from a police academy, but like Rose it’s quite possible she never bothered and since she’s the suspicious outsider with a pair of bodyguards - there’s a decent chance she’s not allowed to have a carry piece.

Maya is a former pirate and insurgent, now missing one hand, and has by far the most combat experience and aggression in combat of all the targets… but is limited by having only one fully functional hand. May also not have a carry piece.

If the game assumes that none of them have carry pieces and all of them are shocked by the attack, they can use all the same behaviors and aspects. Otherwise having all targets who fight back doing it the same would be just as jarring for the player (“why is a general who’s never actually fought in a battle as badass as a grizzled ex-secret service guy?”)

If the game were to try to incorporate their characters into self-defense… that becomes a nightmare for working out how to work it, how to balance it and how to deal with player’s expectations.

After all if my only experience with letting targets see me is they run away to get help, then cower when cornered - I am probably going to build a plan around this and may get quite annoyed if after fifteen minutes of planning my target responds to an explosion by pulling out a gun and charging toward me instead of running into the room where I’ve set up a proximity bomb.

It’s one of those things that works great in imagination but creates a whole bunch of potential problems when you factor in the complexity of the game and how many loops and plans it could obliterate if a gun goes off at the wrong time.

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