$70USD AAA game; AI is dumb as a box of rocks

So when is IOI going to update and improve how derpy ths AI in this AAA game is?

Examples:

Knock out a guard using a “non-lethal” object; Get shot at by spotting guard who says
“That was a gun shot! Find the shooter!” but the only ones shooting are the guards AT me.

NPC civilians running from me when they see me but none of them are aware I am a threat.

Knocked out body spotted by guards. “There’s a killer on the loose!” But they later revive the
person who’s merely knocked out. (This is more dialog nonsese than AI but kinda same thing.)
The dialog is stupid: “We have a guy being a real nusiance!” when I’m kililng everyone.
The former dialog would be more appropriate but nope. AI dialog is just dumb too.

Lesser examples of AI and more of just silly programming the flashbang mechanics.
Flashbangs appear through solid walls or doors, can hang in air, turn toward your hidig spot and
land behind you. They can even be “precision” dropped right onto a ledge you’re hanging from
when tossed from below.

Sounds of bullets whizzing by on Berlin if you shoot the outside guards w/ sniper rifle.
Where are these bullets coming from? There’s nobody outside to shoot at you so they’re just
sound effects.

If the AI catches you hanging from your fingers such as a helocopter landing pad they shoot at your fingers (!).

Banana peel slip and fall makes everyone start saying “there’s a killer on the loose!” which I’ve already mentioned on another thread. This is dumb since taking away a ‘wet floor’ sign doesn’t rate same response. It should be an accident. period. Same as wet floor.

The AI enemies can “see” you through the wall if you hide against that spot. They don’t give up,
but keep tossing fiashbangs and shooting.

Attacking from behind on stairs results in stowing any melee item and you grab the person instead.
(This has been since Hitman 2016).

Attacking a person near a ‘dazed’ NPC results in the dazed NPC instantly waking from their daze and spotting you then running for guards. Two examples in Sapienza the bike rider and Miami the Mascot who is knocked down.

Getting your disguise blown from doing something illegal can result in weird NPC dialog
such as “Do I know you?” from someone who you were interacting with normally a moment before.

NPCs who won’t investigate noise and just return to their default location. Example: Dartmoore the one guy seats on a couch just gets up at a sound of noise and immediately “repositions” back to the couch. If you watch you can see him teleport back and sit no matter how much noise you make.
This is a problem when you have a mission to make him die by accident since he won’t move.

This list of AI ‘derpiness’ can go on but this is a short list.

All of these examples though should be improved upon or changed. The game already has much
suspension of disbelief for Agent 47’s abilities. The AI acting as it does just throws all suspensions
out the window and makes the game silly.

Also, how about more ‘ethnic’ voice actors instead of all the guards sounding like they’re all from US.
That’s more to language pack than AI but seriously lacking credibilty when a guard from Germany sounds like he’s from Boston or Chicago.

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Those are the filler civilians that have this behaviour; regular civilians only run from any danger they see.

You try recording for every contingency possible. I’ll give you a hint; it’s not easy.

I suspect the game is expecting a combat scenario, but doesn’t get it. But then again, I don’t pretend to understand all the intricacies of IOI’s AI systems.

If the AI catches you hanging from your fingers such as a helicopter landing pad they shoot at your fingers (!).

I can tell you now that they do shoot at you. It takes a while, but they do shoot at you.

Banana peel slip and fall makes everyone start saying “there’s a killer on the loose!” which I’ve already mentioned on another thread. This is dumb since taking away a ‘wet floor’ sign doesn’t rate same response. It should be an accident. period. Same as wet floor.

Again, AI events that closely match up with what’s being seen. There are accident voice lines for guards and such, they’re just being applied here for some reason.

The AI enemies can “see” you through the wall if you hide against that spot. They don’t give up,
but keep tossing fiashbangs and shooting.

This is called “Rubberbanding”, and this is a specific form of that. It’s to pressure onto the player, and really, its’ not terribly unrealistic either. the AI will eventually flank you, so they will move.

Attacking from behind on stairs results in stowing any melee item and you grab the person instead.
(This has been since Hitman 2016).

That’s not an AI limitation, that’s just how stair combat is. Yes, it’s stupid, but the compromise is that, while noisy, it will not out you.

Attacking a person near a ‘dazed’ NPC results in the dazed NPC instantly waking from their daze and spotting you then running for guards. Two examples in Sapienza the bike rider and Miami the Mascot who is knocked down.

Welcome to gameplay and story segregation! Yes it’s silly. No, it doesn’t make a lick of sense. Just…don’t poke the bear to begin with.

Getting your disguise blown from doing something illegal can result in weird NPC dialog
such as “Do I know you?” from someone who you were interacting with normally a moment before.

Again, there are only so many voice lines for so many contexts and situations. There would have to be A LOT of background checks for this sort of thing, hence the more generic lines we have now.

NPCs who won’t investigate noise and just return to their default location.

This is due to “sentry” AI behaviour, which basically means they won’t move unless you go openly loud. Annoying, yes, but it makes sense in certain situations (guards, for example).

Also, how about more ‘ethnic’ voice actors instead of all the guards sounding like they’re all from US.
That’s more to language pack than AI but seriously lacking credibilty when a guard from Germany sounds like he’s from Boston or Chicago.

Hitman 2 made a concerted effort to hire multinational VA’s. Mumbai and Ambrose Island has Indian voice actors, Columbia has Hispanic accents (as does Mendoza for much of the civilians).

This just feels like a thread of “things that are tangentially AI related that I don’t like or don’t understand”. I hope this has been educational.

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I give this thread a ‘meh’ rating.

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99% of these things have nothing to do with AI.

Also not necessarily suggesting this is the case with the OP, more as just a personal grievance relating to the topic, but people really need to learn to distinguish the difference between ‘AI’ as its known in popular media and ‘AI’ game design. They’re completely different things.

Think of it more as ‘NPC behaviour’ rather than ‘AI’. It cannot really be ‘dumb’ or ‘smart’ as it’s just following game design rules, and those game design rules are more based on trying to make the game balanced and enjoyable rather than trying to make the NPCs seem smart or believable.

For anyone looking for an immersive experience with believable AI across the board, try an immersive sim or something. Hitman is more about the ‘sim’ part, with systems and emergent gameplay allowing for ridiculously zany and fun scenarios. Not that Hitman can’t be immersive. Just load into Mumbai and walk around and keep your own actions limited to a subset of what the game offers, and it can be rather immersive. But once you start getting into the edge cases of gameplay mechanics, of course nothing is going to be realistic, it’s going to be gamey and let you do some goofy shit.

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What people seem to forget is that most games literally just have a couple of AI-states to deal with. Most of them are just switching between gunfights and awaiting gunfights. With Hitman there are gunfights. Then there are hundreds of social scenarios playing out. There are disguises and social stealth. Which means the AI has to react somewhat believable to infinite combinations of disguises, areas, illegal/legal actions, weird behavior, etc. Do that times-a-300 NPCs (+crowd). NPCs that don’t spawn when you encounter them but are active throughout.

On top of that, they have to balance this for difficulty and consistency, because 100p realistic AI would just be frustrating in a game that is already too hard for many players. There is a reason why actual game developers always revered IO’s work, if you ever visit their socials… because the people who understand the actual mechanics of AI, know that what they have achieved with Hitman is impressive as fuck.

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This game ain’t getting any better than it currently is ‘maño. The AI is pretty wonderful but there are hundred of examples of stupid hitman logic that are either annoying or comical depending on your perspective. Like shooting a dude in the leg and knocking him out and keeping SA. I know that’s not AI. It’s just a rule, but it’s an easy example of nonsensical things in the game.

Anyway sorry you don’t it, but it’s near the end of its life cycle so I wouldn’t expect too many more improvements.

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Who uses flashbangs?

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I woud rather call them imperfection than AI problems.
Many of them had been there since 2016 and 7 years passed nothing fixed, so I’d say I’ll give up.

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You’re preaching to the choir, man. I have been complaining about the god-awful AI for years. If they haven’t fixed it by now, you’re wasting your breath.
How did you enjoy the earlier Hitman games? Personally I loved the bleak, dark tones of Contracts. But my favourite, for the mechanics, will always be Blood Money.
I definitely see your point about some of the voice acting. Listen to the bikers. Who in a biker gang seriously talks like that?

The AI also isn’t scripted to react to blood stains from a kill. But as for the mismatched lines for a given situation… Personally, I find that funny sometimes. And if it makes me laugh - I don’t see anything wrong with it. I also understand you can’t have things happen in the game the way one would expect them to in real life. So if an NPC sees me shooting their buddy and says I’m being “a real d_ck!” How can you not just love that? :joy:

In fact (well, not that I’ve played every game in existence) I don’t know of any game that has that high level of scripting for their NPCs to appropriately react to every imaginable scenario, let alone have the lines or the ability to organically react and form phrases for any given situation.

But if you can make a game like that then I can’t wait to play it.

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The guards… continuously.

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I think I played an old old version of original Agent 47. It was around time I also played Max Payne.
Not sure what year it was. It was OK, but I barely remember. Since I don’t see a disc for it in my
stuff I think I might have bootlegged a copy. I think I had a controller back then but I was bad
at the game.

I bought all of the hitman games on steam that I could last summer. Most of them were unplayble
for various modern incompatibilities including sound, graphics, speed, or my lack of a controller.

I had a round of Covid last summer where I had nothing else to do. I played Absolultion to the end.
It was only one I had almost no problem with the playability and it was Ok w/ mouse and keyboard.
I don’t remember if Blood Money was playable or not. I’d need to go reinstall that one to test.

First of all - what do you expect from game? To be a simulator of life? This is game and in games you need to learn rules and try beat the game on these rules. Don’t expect that game to be realistic in any means. If you think that way youre simply dump. There is a very complex script behind whole system in game and it’s quite advanced if you take on workshop how level works and how they are complex. Hitman have one of best AI behaviours if you realise how whole game works. Seems you don’t.

This post is just a bullshit. Just lean how game works and have fun or just stop playing and find other game which do it better. I belive you won’t find any because Hitman is one of hes kind. Of course it have hes problems and things which could be done better, but if you understand how complex this game is and how small studio is who made this game - then you realise that game is just briliant.

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OP complains about AI cause they aren’t sentient beings who know the players every move in their Mr World Wide Killing Simulator.

OP also complains about the lack of ethnic voice actors in game cause IO uses a set of reliable Voice Actors for their games since Absolution probably most likely cause it was a safer cheaper option to rehire someone.

OP also should acknowledge the context of time and that IO basically has been using the same AI system since HITMAN 2016 two games later to save money.

OP should use their Oil Tycoon Money to make the game they want.

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That’s not dumb! That’s brilliant!
Though Sierra’s move also merits a mention here.

My biggest gripe with the AI is the AI often falls flat when it comes to combat.

It’s a stealth game, combat is more of a “you screwed up” state anyways, but if you bring some loud guns and shoot your way to the goal you start noticing some quirks.

NPC guards are a bit blockheaded when it comes to firefights. I’ll note Hitman 2 added some improvements though in the realism department. (Guards have more realistic fire rates and don’t magdump pistols in less than a second like in Hitman 2016, guards throw flashbangs even though it’s a bit cheaty, the flashbangs act more like Payday 2 flashbangs where they always land at your feet)

However, despite that, I often see guards facing the wrong way even though I’m shooting my way through the level. I also see guards are a bit hyper-aggressive and you can just hold a corner and everyone will rush to you and lead to a comical pile of dead guards in a single doorway.

On the subject of civilians, I wish mass-evacuations were a thing if combat escalates to a high enough level of carnage. It’s a bit goofy you can be setting off explosions and such and everyone sits there. (I think the “fake” NPC crowds do evacuate and disappear at least, but otherwise people will crouch down and cower despite the exit being nearby.)

Also, in stealth, guards are psychic at pinpointing the location of a sniper or when a triple bullet impact occurs. It’s not unreasonable when one suspects a sniper they’re probably in a likely vantage point so it makes sense to suspect where you’re firing from, but they always know the exact floor and room you fired the shot from.

The changes I propose are to make loud combat more punishing at least. Make the guards less likely to push a fortified position (a room with one doorway, etc.) one by one, but instead stack up near the doorway, throw a flashbang (or even lethal grenade in) and then all push to overwhelm the player while he’s blinded.

Guards should also be able to pick up weapons lying around if they’re “better” than when they’re currently equipped with if combat escalates to a certain point. I.E. many security rooms have assault rifles, shotguns, and smgs, but guards will never pick them up even if they only have pistols and the player is going on a rampage.

Finally, I think if combat continues to go on for a long enough period of time and many guards have been killed, a limited amount of reinforcements with high-grade weapons (assault rifles) can arrive from off-map if it makes sense.

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If crowds are panicking around 47, being close to them should be seen as suspicious by ordinary NPCs.

Personally i’m more worried about the bugs than the AI :sweat_smile:

But i agree that sometimes this can be annoying, for example when they suddenly have telepathic powers and everyone is aware of what’s happening…

If the shots at my fingers actually were hitting me. But I spent 30m “fingerwalking” back and forth and even when I got behind the wall and they did lose sight of me the dialog said “the bastard got away”.

I moved a single inch and one of them began shooting. HOW did he spot me when they had all settled down? IDK. But it set off the “someone is shooting!” dialog, But again the only ones shooting where
the guards. And the guard who was shooting was the one saying this. In this case the game devs know this is a possible situation. I could see common sense logic having a guard walk up and shoot me in
the head. Versus them shooting at my fingers and being unable to hit me. Or just as good having an animation where the shots hit my fingers and I fall.

Honestly, it’s a death sentence. I’m cornered. Maybe a melee where the guard aforementioned walks up and tried to shoot and 47 has a 50-50 change to grab and toss him over the edge. Seriously, that’d work. Anything better than a BS stalemate.

THIS is my point. We’re paying $70 for a game in 2023. What is supposed to be a AAA game and they give us recycled crap from 2016. I might understand the HM1 and 2 missions keeping the old AI but World of Assasination is supposed to be new. A rebranding. But it’s just same old same old.

The characters are just dumb. common sense reactions.
A body is spotted.
Are they dead? YES. Look for the killer.
Are they knocked out only. YEes. Look for the Attacker and try to wake up then victim for an ID of their assailant.

Honestly that is simple as it gets.
Some of the logic follows that flow but it falls flat more times than not.

This game forces the player to be creative in how to be a killer. At it’s heart it’s a strategy game.
How about the game programmers be more creative in the guards and other NPCs actions?

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