Freelancer - General Discussion

“They said it was officially canon!
-They also said it wasn’t.
-It doesn’t matter what they say, my point still stands!”

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Freelancer is still just a small part to show what 47 has been up to post Untouchable (Hitman III epilogue). Of course in the next game we’re not going to get any references that 47 has killed dozens of syndicate leaders in Paris or Marrakesh because he won’t have actually killed them at that location because of game mechanics. If anything in the next game, we may just get a reference of 47 and Diana being Freelance operatives and they took out various syndicate leaders, but we very likely won’t get any details as to where they were eliminated because what’s left up to player ambiguity.

So this essentially means Freelancer is cannon, set post Hitman III, but we ignore the presence of the campaign targets in missions, very much like Elusive Targets as they’re part of the canon story as well, as proven in the ICA Date Core.

In summery, the Safehouse, 47 and Diana undertaking Freelance contracts post Hitman III epilogue is a canon part of the story. This ties too well into the ‘New Deal’ cutscene. The location as to where the Syndicate members and Leaders are eliminated is not a canon part of the story and it’s left up to player ambiguity. You could say this is a similar situation to Elusive Targets, they are a canon part of the story, but their location as to where they’re eliminated is left up to the players because not every one is eliminated at the same Paris fashion show, or at the same street protest in Marrakesh.

Class post! This sums it all up perfectly :grin:

You used the same line of argumentation, just before my post? Here:

That is a big discussion in literature and media theory: the death of the author vs. the authoritative author. We’re not gonna solve that one here, but fact is, you set the parameters for that line of argumentation yourself.

How can both of you arrive at that, when the interview literally says:

When does Freelancer take place on the Hitman game timeline, if it does at all?
Freelancer exists in a separate parallel timeline.

Let me help. The quote above is the main statement, and everything coming after is said to elaborate that point. It all relates to the fact that it’s not on the same timeline as the main story:

On the one hand the narrative of being a freelancer and operating solo with Diana, but without belonging to a bigger organization like ICA, fits with where the story of where Hitman 3 ends.

The key word is fits. He doesn’t say belongs or comes after. He is saying that they made it so that it fits, in spite of the fact that it not part of the story.

Below comes the reason why it can’t be part of the official story. There is too much narrative dissonance (from 47 going to the same locations, i.e. past murder scenes, at the same time, with the same people, again and again). It just doesn’t add up:

But on the other hand the actual on-mission gameplay in Freelancer takes place on the same time as the main missions, in most cases, so that gives a narrative disconnect to make the post-Hitman 3 idea work fully.

He says: it doesn’t work as post-Hitman 3 narrative.

The keyword in the next sentence is “pretend”:

we also decided to leave a bit of ambiguity so that players who like to pretend that the gameplay takes place after Hitman 3 can do that, without too much distraction from the established canon.

The last sentence has a clear subtext: there is an established canon, and Freelancer is not part of it.

I think you are reading what you want to read, not what he said.

In fact, I want it too, and I play as if it takes place after the main story. But if you accept that the author has a say in what their work means, then it is literally not official cannon.

And when Heisenberg said that “IOI stated around the time of release that Freelancer officially takes place…”, that is either an outright lie or a case of having forgotten it. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Or, show me where they “officially” stated it, because I’ve seen no mention of it except for this interview. The one that diametrically contradicts your point.

IO tried to make it fit, so that we can pretend, but the main point stands:

Freelancer exists in a separate parallel timeline.

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I’m not even gonna bother with the rest of that, because only this part above needs to be addressed. When I pointed out that IOI themselves said that Freelancer takes place after the events of Untouchable, I was not using that in-and-of itself as the proof of it being the case; rather, that was merely to bolster it. It ultimately doesn’t matter what anyone at IOI says when it contradicts what’s in the actual work. And what is in the actual work? 47 and Diana are doing freelance work out of the safehouse. That is not an “alternate timeline,” that is what is happening after the events of the main game’s timeline. When a new game comes out, if it shows that something different happened, that there is no safehouse, that no independent freelance work took place and the story actually went off in some totally different direction, then the claim that it’s some alternate timeline can be adhered to. But until then, it doesn’t matter what he said; the creators of a work like this don’t often put a lot of thought into details like this and generally seem to just say stuff to satisfy a question they are often asked about it, but don’t actually care about the question or the answer and they just want to shut the askers up. So, until a new game or story mode comes about that shows otherwise, Freelancer is what is actually happening, regardless of what is said in an interview regarding something that the person being asked isn’t even invested in.

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I love you Fleur. :purple_heart:

I knew they’ve said it before so thanks for providing proof.

Like I said before Heisenberg thinks of himself as The Arbiter of Truth and The Ultimate Authority on Reality. He’ll ignore Word of God from the devolpers themselves while still hiding behind made up statements from the same people to back his own goofy theories.

I used to respect him despite our diagreements but now I see he’s not argumenting in good faith.

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Because I follow the actual lore, not inconsistent and contradicting statements made outside of it.

Because Word of God is not actually Word of God, it’s just the Word of the Day. The views and opinions of the creators change all the time, there’s more than one person involved in a project and their input can contradict another, and as stated, the developers themselves are not really invested in subjects like this and just throw out responses to answer questions that they get asked a lot. I can point to numerous examples across multiple media, including The DragonBall, Star Wars, and Resident Evil franchises, just to name three off the top of my head.

My so-called “goofy theories” are based off of what’s presented in the work itself. Again, it’s called paying attention. And I am not hiding behind anything; simply because I have not posted where I got my information does not mean I’m hiding behind anything, it is because I can’t find the source, because it was posted more than a year ago and I do not remember in which information release it came from, as other than the information I mentioned, which was all I was looking for at the time so it’s all I retained, I can’t remember what else was discussed in that same release, so I haven’t found it yet. In any event, while I’ll keep looking for it and will point it out when I find it - or retract and rephrase my original statement on the matter if it turns out I am remembering incorrectly - as I’ve already pointed out how that is not the information that I’m solely or even primarily basing my conclusions on, it is of little relevance whether I provide that information or not.

You chose to dismiss anything I was saying from the get-go because you’d already made up your own mind, and were belittling in your dismissiveness. Hi pot, I’m kettle, that’s a nice shade of black you have.

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I’ve decided I am ignoring your comments because “the intentions and views of the creators of a [comment] are not the final be-all/end-all say on the matter because of changing views” therefore I conclude Heisenberg is just pretend argueing with me and he obviously agrees with me and is just flirting with me.

I do recognize that devolopers contradict themselves occasionally but that doesn’t mean you can throw out a blanket statement claiming that the developers intentions and views have no validity to them whatsoever regardless of what they say.

They gave a detailed explantion why Freelancer is a seperate parallel timeline and ignoring that and arguing otherwise without proof is intellectual dishonesty.

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So you’ve decided to learn nothing and prove my statement about you true? Gotcha.

So, I just unlocked the “slow but steady” challenge, and captured a pop-in of assets funny transition of the vault when playing the market made me cross the 500.000 M threshold while in the vault itself.

Is this the right thread, or is it just for drowning wall of text and other toxic posts?

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You didn’t lose money in the stock market?? Wild!

Eh, a lot of shit has started across the forum since the Season of Undying announcement came, but personally, I think we’re all just letting off the steam of tension we’d been carrying from months of not knowing the game’s future and waiting to hear something and then finally getting it. I get the feeling that it’s winding down, hopefully.


Here we go again… Trying to finish a few challenges with this prestige. Still have a lot open.

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That’s weird. I never had that happen to me, but I think I remember that someone else (either on here or on Reddit) had the same or a similar issue. Might be worth reporting?

I’ll tell you why! Initially, IOI stated Elusive Targets weren’t a canon part of the story and take place in a separate parallel timeline. Think this was said in one of the player live streams back in 2016. This was immediately reverted and Elusive Targets were made canon when they showed up in the ICA Data Files in ‘End of an Era’, before 47 exposed them to the world.

Like I’ve explained before, it’s clearly obvious Elusive Targets don’t take place at the Paris fashion show where Viktor Novikov is killed, or in Dubai where Carl Ingram and Marcus Stuyvesant are killed. These contracts do take place, however, due to game mechanics etc, they have to take place on the same maps as they appear in the story. It would be cool to have new locations to play Elusive Targets on, but that is never going to happen my friend.

The same applies to Freelancer effectively. In that interview, IOI would have likely addressed the issue that way because of how difficult it would be to change the route of NPC, alter all game mechanics, change the locations etc. They more or less admitted they wanted to alter the missions to fit everything post Hitman III, but game mechanics wouldn’t allow it, so they left the missions as they were so players wouldn’t be restricted.

So, my point still stands. The Safehouse, 47 and Diana’s interactions and the Freelance contracts (set after Hitman III epilogue). The actual locations as to where the Syndicate Members & Leaders are eliminated (Not Canon as explained above).

Also, speaking of things post Hitman III, The Drop Elusive Target is set around this time, which is clearly obvious from Diana’s mission briefing, so this is just another example of Diana and 47’s current Freelance work.

I personally think by the time the next game comes around, 47 will have gradually moved on from the Safehouse as he’s likely only there temporarily whilst he and Diana carry out their Freelance work. They’ll probably also be a time jump from Hitman III / Freelancer to the next game, so naturally 47 will be residing elsewhere once they start making further enemies.

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Well, technically, that’s moving on from that part of the story, not negating it. If some other exposition is given as to what happened after 47 and Diana talked on the phone while he was in that cabin, something that makes any part of Freelancer, even the existence of the safehouse a flat impossibility, then we can relegate Freelancer to the category of non-canon what-if scenario. If the new game starts and their situation is different, but nothing prevents Freelancer activities from taking place in the time in between, like the ETs taking place in the 7 years between Absolution and WoA, then Freelancer can still be considered a canon era of the story.

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Finally finished the challenge of shooting 100 targets in the head with the Russian sniper rifle, then I prestiged for the 2nd time and started work on the two challenges that require me to fail missions. Not as straightforward as I would have liked, because I need to fail some showdowns, but I can’t get to a showdown after failing an alerted map and the maps all become alert when you leave without killing all targets, so the two can’t just be easily completed together.

However, I have found a strategy. Starting a new campaign, I pick the most difficult of the three missions and leave it, alerting the other two, then I pick the easiest of the remaining two, usually involving only one target, and complete that mission, get to the showdown, then leave, which counts toward both challenges. So I fail the campaign on the first contract after 3 missions, but two of them count toward Cold Feet, and one counts toward Sometimes Good/Shit. I have 16 of the former left and 6 of the latter, so by repeating this strategy 8 times, I’ll have both completed, and then it’s just the prestige challenges and the kill X number of members/leaders/complete X number of campaigns. I’ll just play as normal to finish those.

However, doing the Cold Feet challenge let me see something I hadn’t before: loading screens that are different from the ones I’ve seen so far of going to a mission, coming back from a successful one, and coming back from one where I died before completion. I can get why the ones of an injured 47 limping back home aren’t shown, but why aren’t the loading screen animations from just failing the mission not shown during regular loads? Unlike the ones you see after dying, which make it clear 47 is badly hurt, there’s nothing in these screens that indicate failure, other than their somewhat darker and more depressing tone, but they still look cool and could still be shown as you’re going to or coming back from a mission.

Seen one with 47 and his car on a cargo ship; one with him in a dark room looking at what appears to be intel stacked on a coffee table with a silenced pistol lying nearby; and my favorite, one of him in what appears to be a hotel room at night, with a table with a bottle and a glass in the corner, and he’s standing in front of a large window with his hands clasped behind his back, staring out at the skyscrapers of the city he’s in, with flashes of lighting across the sky and rain running down the window’s glass, interspersed with closeups of the back of his head, and you almost wonder what dark thoughts are going through the mind of a killer at rest as he stares out at the helpless, unsuspecting world. Let us see these load screens more without having to fail, IOI, they’re pretty neat ones.

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This is definitely the scenario I’m thinking is going to take place. The story will have dramatically evolved, 47 and Diana have been taking out these Syndicate Leaders during the time between Hitman III and the next game, but the situation will be different by the time the next game comes around.

Freelancer will still be part of the story, such as 47 will have obviously been residing at the Safehouse whilst operating as a Freelancer, however, the elimination of the Syndicate Leaders won’t as such be acknowledged because it’s sort of left to player ambiguty. It would be cool if 47 remained at the Safehouse in the next game, but I’d have thought he’d have moved on his travels by then, depending on what type of enemies both he and Diana will be making by the next game.

Hope that makes sense?

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And it’s done. I’ve now completed every challenge except the remaining prestige ones, and the ones requiring me to kill X amount of members/leaders and complete 50/100 campaigns. They will finish in time as I play, no more cheesing to complete a challenge needed. Finally, it’s done.

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@Heisenberg right now:

finished-breaking-bad

Cue the music as we slowly pan on the chemistry set in the shed. Oh my god, the reveal: he poisoned the syndicate leader.

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It’s fine, guys. Freelancer is canon and nothing anyone says will change that for you. I accept that you will see it the way you will see it.

Or, in the words of the game director of Freelancer himself: keep on pretending. :slight_smile:

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