Agreed, but don’t point out the propane shenanigans, mate - with the fairly reliable trend of IOI only ever nerfing rather than buffing already-existing items, we don’t want to lose propane tank accident kills as well! 
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I’d agree with that, but the propane flask doesn’t explode when you throw it (does it?), so the comparison here seems a bit flawed. There’s extra setup, and there’s a lower lethal radius too. I feel like there’s a difference between placing an item and throwing it across the room and expecting an accident kill.
I’d be fine with it being placed and providing an accident kill if you shoot at it, because then that seems to be a better middleground. But hurling it across the room, even with the downsides it has, just doesn’t make sense to award an accident kill to.
So basically, I want it to be an explosive golfball.
That first part has no relevance to the discussion. The second part about explosives is agreeable; they do need buffing, that’s a fair shout.
You clearly do, as exhaustively detailed here, you just disagree with the change.
It does if thrown near a fire source; an NPC holding a cigarette, a fireplace, a car batter that’s already smashed and crackling, or even another propane flask that’s already leaking (the two ignite each other, somehow).
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I more meant normally throwing it on the floor/ walls, not an outside source/force triggering it.
Huh. That is not something I knew. That’s a really specific situation though tbh.
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Eh, either way.
A Molotov could easily count as an accident if it is assumed the person killed was carrying the Molotov and accidentally dropped it, setting themselves unintentionally on fire, so I don’t see the problem there, really.
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No…that’s very different. It exploding on its own versus exploding due to an outside force/source is not the same.
But that’s not what it looks like. If they pick it up and it explodes, sure, that’d be quite cool. But that’s not how it works.
Remote explosive molly when?
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Honestly, throwing a molotov straight at (or rather near) a target was the least common way I used it since it was pretty unreliable. I usually just used the dart gun glitch since it felt a lot more consistent, and is pretty similar to how you’d use a propane flask. It is worth pointing out that throwing the molotov is an illegal action for all disguises (I think), so it does require a bit of planning and skill to pull off. However, I do get how it could seem a little cheap. Perhaps something similar to the propane flask where you have to shoot it to trigger an accident kill would be better.
The point I was making about it being an interesting new item despite being a little unbalanced was that making something more balanced doesn’t necessarily make it more fun. It’s not like an online game where it’s unfair to other players. The item opened up some interesting new gameplay ideas and strategies that helped breathe a bit of fresh air into the game, even if it could be used in some cheesy ways. I think just turning into an explosive golfball just makes it boring.
What I meant was that the logic IOI is using doesn’t make sense in my opinion.
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Yeah, I can attest to that. I have gigabytes of footage where the radius was not being respected in some places, but was in others…it’s just confusing.
The most consistent accident kill I did was throw it at a previously KO’d target, which always granted an accident kill.
You are correct; every disguise cannot throw it; even guards. However, that just turns into “find the best cubby-hole and hope and pray it gives you an accident kill”. Even if you shot it, you still needed to find a place to shoot from without causing suspicion yourself. I’m not saying the molotov is skill-less, but it’s not worth the effort as it was finnicky and inconsistent without abusing bugs (which IOI clearly saw as a priority fix; IOI do not fix stuff this quickly)
Me and @Leakerman had this same idea essentially, which seems much less cheesy.
It’s basically a throwable oil drum; that’s new by itself, but I don’t think it breathed any new life into the game; other than “let’s abuse it” (which wasn’t hard as it had tons of bugs).
I don’t think any other item in the game was so obviously cheesy and looking and feeling ridiculous; Even the propane/taser combo requires some setup, knowing where a propane flask is located, and intricate target routine knowledge. The latter also applies to the Kalmer/Siekers too. Later levels tend not to have many propane flasks laying about the place either, meaning in some respects you’re rewarded for map exploration. Their logic seems sound to me.
Until the recent changes to sick spots, I sense that IOI wanted people to do this for “The Blusterous” ETA.
For those reading this, this is what good balance discussion looks like.
I actually didn’t know that. I assumed it would just count as an explosive device kill; although I guess that’s irrelevant now.
I do get what you’re saying about it being a little cheesy even disregarding bugs. It’s a shame we never got that jerry can unlock to set up some fire accidents. You could have it so pouring out the can is an illegal action, so you actually have to plan out your use of it very carefully.
Honestly, I don’t really see a problem with people abusing it. It’s a single-player game so all it really does it open up some new gameplay options. I do think it’s a little too janky and ‘abuse-able’ in its current state (or rather the previous one), but it seems like such as waste to just take this interesting new item and then just throw it onto the ever-increasing pile of useless unlocks. Just figuring out some way to nerf it while keeping the fire accident would have given it some interesting niche uses without it being too cheesy.
Agree to disagree on most of this to be honest. The propane+taser combo does require some setup, but there’s also a bigger margin of error compared to the molotov. Since throwing the flask and dropping the micro-taser are never considered illegal actions, it’s pretty easy to just drop them next to the target and blow them to bits with little risk. The molotov being an unlock does definitely give it some advantages over the propane flask, but if your map knowledge is good, you’re never terribly far from a propane flask. And lets be real, it’s only a matter of time before IOI releases a propane flask reskin as an unlock.
I didn’t say it was the same; I said, “either way,” as in, it doesn’t matter to me either way, I’m now going to move on to what I’m really here to say.
It’s not about how it works; it’s about how it looks. There wouldn’t be an issue if IOI wasn’t concerned with it not being believable as an accident. Believable to whom? Who are the accident kills supposed to be fooling? The players? No, they know it’s not an accident, they’re the ones triggering it. So who? The people within the world we’re playing in, that’s who. Accidents are supposed to seem like accidents for the sake of the NPCs who see a person die. If you throw a Molotov to kill someone in a fire accident, you obviously are trying to do so when they are A) far enough away from others that there’s no collateral damage, and B) nobody is looking to see you throw it. So when you meet those two conditions and you throw it, the target dies and it’s seen as an accident, but that’s not believable as an accident if it clearly came from a bottle with flammable liquid in it. Well, since nobody was looking or close by, the conclusion to be drawn is that the dead person had a molotov in their hands, we’re dicking around with it, dropped it while it was lit, and killed themselves. In-universe it could still be seen as an accident. Out of universe, it’s really not that far off from drowning someone in a toilet and getting people to believe it was accidental. If anything, shooting a resting molotov to make it burst is even more conspicuous than how I described above, because now there’s bullet evidence involved.
That would be preferable for all the reasons you’ve said.
Abused weapons are still bad, regardless of genre. And it didn’t really open any new gameplay options either; it’s a propane flask that explodes on contact.
I agree. The explosives have been in this weird state of not being very viable. Now the Molotov joins that group.
Again, I concur. The ideas pitched here so far have been pretty good.
Not every map has them if I recall, some maps are much bigger than others, and the maps tend to unintentionally hide them when they do feature them (which again, makes it feel like a good thing that you learned where they are).
Let’s stick to the present and not get ahead of ourselves.
Speaking of… IOI Please buff the Audio Distractions Gadgets!
They’ve been nigh-useless compared to any other audible object since the release of Hitman 3, and I can probably count on just two hands the amount of times I’ve used them since H3 came out. It’s even less if you count successful uses
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That is an insane leap in logic, especially since said target wasn’t seen to be holding it moments prior, and guards tend to look at targets anyway 24/7.
But it’s not though. Bathroom accidents are far-and-away more common than a molotov being thrown/ blown up near you. And bathrooms tend to have wardrobes in the Hitman universe for some ungodly reason.
I think i’ve used coins more than audio distraction gadgets; and I really don’t use coins all that much.
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Yeah. I haven’t mathed it out, but I’m sure the audio devices can barely attract people 4 feet away/ the width of 2 people.
That’s just an estimate, but they’ve got to be real close, close enough that it’s virtually useless to set-up/use if they’re standing so close anyhow.
It should attract people, say, half a room away, maybe the width of 4-5 people. Let me attract someone from the other side of a door.
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Honestly I would be fine with eliminating propane accident kills, I get that it would make speedrunning and levels harder, but it just makes sense in most contexts / it’s current state, the concept of walking up to someone, throwing a leaking propane tank at their feet, and then shooting it or using a device that sets it off just doesn’t feel very “accidental” to me. Accident kills in previous games were at least somewhat characterized by a feeling of fluidity but yet still having some realism or logic. Not to mention most accident kills (other than fall and drowning kills) were very limited in the contexts in which you could accomplish them, however because of how open the mechanics have become it might be better to hold the concept of an accident to higher scrutiny at least in future entries with a kind of looser scaling system for how kills are treated and for rank.
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(It really isn’t far, I can confirm).
That’s a very good way of framing the situation, yeah.
Honestly I wouldn’t! 
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Walk/run toggle! I’ve been waiting months for this. My worn out controller bumper wishes to thank the devs.
The new Mendoza exit is a nice touch too.
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