New Elusive Target: THE DISRUPTOR (Second Run: November 15 - December 8 2024)

[Guillermo_Murillo]

This also showcases one the core flaws of the ET formula. People don’t like to fail ETs, is frustating, specially for completitionists, it’s FOMO and it’s BS. IO knows this, hence why they keep handholding you to prevent you from failing, especially with special targets like celebs where they want most people to succeed. The ET formula itself prevents IO from trying to do something new and challenging because of the risk of making it too hard for new players.

The Drop was a good mission, but was also incredibly easy and Diana kept spoiling every single opportunity. It’s really hard to balance a mission for both old and new players with the one time only nature of ETs.

I always like new missions on the game, but the ET formula is long overdue for a retirement, is no longer fun or exciting, they’ve been reran a quadrillion times and most of them are permanent on the arcade. Whenever there’s a new one, everyone expects them to become permanent at some point because they don’t like the one time bullshit.

[schatenjager]

Add in the idea that for many players who don’t come back to the same game week after week for years, the first time they play one of the celebrity Elusive Targets may be the only time they ever play that particular mission. Outside of injecting it into Elusive Target Arcade, there’s no replayability for Elusive Targets so these ones where they redo whole sections of the map or there’s a bunch of different mission story-like opportunities are “wasted” in a sense from the individual player perspective. I can’t go back and kill The Drop in a different way unless IOI decides to re-release it at some point.

[Guillermo_Murillo]

Yes, that’s exactly the point. People have hated that crap ever since H1, so I don’t know why IO keeps doing that. I’m pretty sure everyone wants The Drop to return (hopefully without mandatory complications), and everyone will want this new ET to also return permanently, so why keep catering to this obsolete and pointless game mode? Why not release them permently the first time? ETs have lost all novelty after 8 years of reruns, just let them die

[Dribbleondo]

This is actually a point I discuss in my [soon to be edited and released] H2 ET’s video. The ET’s are trying to be two things at once; appeal to veterans by adding a challenge, but also have to make sure they are easy enough for new players to beat. Like with Freelancer, IO have made a mode that is, in general, dis-satisfying for both parties.

I will be fair, the H3 ET’s have generally escaped this (even the Drop, which has Diana speak about some semi-mission stories, are not all that annoying, and actually feel like natural conversations akin to Grey on Ambrose Island, rather than a tutorial.)

Just make these ET’s permanent. Peacock has these permanently available, the offline elusives mod has existed for about 3 years now, and even ETA feels like its own thing. The previous repeat cycle around christmas was when the straw finally broke for people’s backs, as people got to see what we could have all year round, and their time limited gimmick has gotten very tired.

[lukefsje]

The reason they’re still doing ETs is because they’re a generally easy way to “fill up” the roadmaps with not much effort. Without them, it would generally be just 1 challenge and 1 batch of FCs a month in terms of new stuff.

Personally at this point I’d much rather they “filled up” the roadmaps with other legacy content. The 111 challenges cut from Hitman 3 I’ve been advocating be brought back for years. The 38 legacy escalations from the 2016 maps never brought over to 2 or 3. Yeah some of them weren’t that great but some of them were good! And if something wasn’t that good, I’d rather they rework it in some form to make it better instead of totally removing it.

I’ve been replaying the 18 Hitman 2016 escalations which were carried over in Hitman 3 again, and the biggest thing I realized (outside of how much I was enjoying them) was that a lot of them would be really easy to rework into 3 levels by simply combining some of the objectives into a single level. Take The Arthin Occultation - Level 1: First 2 targets, Level 2: Third target + Enhanced Enforcers, Level 3: No Guarding and Sticky Hatchet. I’m no programmer, but I doubt it would take much effort to do it.

[THAT]

I wish I could make contracts on ET missions. The Censor for example has a ton more people at the garden party. Undying changes up a bunch of the Bayside Center - did you know the shotgun in the security room is replaced by a striker? The Frederico Candelaria ET (Sapienza church pope guy) makes the church a super high-security area with no clean access point.

[Guillermo_Murillo]

I feel like adding new arcade contracts would be just as easy to do. The missions are already made, they just need to group them and add the complication. I wouldn’t mind a single contract per month, it would be better than the same old ass ETs. Besides, arcade contracts are permanently available. Hell, I would even prefer to just have a challenge and FC on the roadmap, normal ETs aren’t worth it, not even as filler, they’re just annoying FOMO crap.

I really like your suggestion of adding old 2016 escalations, since I never played that game it would be actually new content for me, and many other people I assume, considering H3 sold much better than the previous two games.

[THAT]

Gosh I’d love the old 2016 escalations brought into 3, preferably reduced down to 3 levels (5 is too much and a lot of them are functionally identical).

Mallory Misfortune, Lyndon Gyration… and the one on Landslide where you kill a bunch of people as the Lawyer.

Escalation Contracts

Look at all of these, there are so many

[Dribbleondo]

@lukefsje

I’ve been replaying the 18 Hitman 2016 escalations which were carried over in Hitman 3 again, and the biggest thing I realized (outside of how much I was enjoying them)

One could argue those were the 18 least annoying contracts in 2016. I do agree that rework is better than removal, but some of them really were very bad (The Lupei Sensitivity comes to mind…)

@lukefsje

The 111 challenges cut from Hitman 3 I’ve been advocating be brought back for years.

A good half of these challenges boiled down to fetch quests in challenge packs and felt like filler content, rather than, say “Faster than Rocco”, which felt like a…well…challenge for the player, and is probably one of the best challenges IO have made in ages as it felt really satisfying to do. Even the Cloud 9/ C47 packs are more substantial and feel like sidequests that have more of a goal in mind, which I think works a lot better than “Grab X from Y location” from something like “The Butler Did It” challenge pack.

There’s also the case of the “Get Yulduz on the Tarpaulin” challenge, which is really finicky to pull off and relies on the physics engine more than player skill.

All in all, I’m not hugely against the 111 challenges being culled, though I will admit that putting the rewards from challenge packs as featured contract and escalation rewards is…a weird way of supplementing this decision.

Also, I think people should consider that at least some of these challenges were removed for a reason, and not because IO were being meanies about it. Method behind madness and all that.

@THAT

Gosh I’d love the old 2016 escalations brought into 3, preferably reduced down to 3 levels (5 is too much and a lot of them are functionally identical).

Fully agree =)

[lukefsje]

@Dribbleondo

18 least annoying contracts in 2016

The Arthin Occultation would definitely not be in my Top 18, and for every really bad escalation that’s missing there are 2-3 okay/good escalations they also didn’t bring back, The Susumu Obsession and The Asya Attunement being my favorite of the cut ones.

@Dribbleondo

A good half of these challenges boiled down to fetch quests in challenge packs

Well it’s not like IO are really against fetch quests, there are plenty of other challenges included in the game which are basically just fetch quests, especially the Discovery challenges (Take Ambrose’s challenges: Find the hook, Find the 4 diary entries, Find a molotov, Find a bone lockpick, Find a durian). At least with the cut challenges that were fetch quests most of the time there was something else involved too: Find a specific disguise and then pick up the items, use the item you find on someone, infiltrate a trespassing zone to find the item, etc.

A good thing they’re not against fetch quest challenges too, given my upcoming challenge “The Great Thief” involves fetching the Golden shotgun and then killing Athena with it. Though once again, that’s more involved than just a fetch quest, in the same vein as eliminating The Maelstrom in a fall while disguised as the holy man or eliminating someone with the iron maiden while disguised as a butler, yet those challenges got cut out.

@Dribbleondo

Even the Cloud 9/ C47 packs are more substantial and feel like sidequests that have more of a goal in mind

I agree that the C47 challenge pack feels more substantial (especially with the challenges referencing the classic missions), but the Cloud 9 challenge pack was super simple. They cut out a challenge like Pacify 5 people with muffins in Whittleton Creek, but were fine with adding Pacify 1 target with a briefcase while disguised as a server (a challenge I literally got on accident after they added it).

@Dribbleondo

Also, I think people should consider that at least some of these challenges were removed for a reason, and not because IO were being meanies about it. Method behind madness and all that.

Yeah they probably did have their reasons, but boy I’ve never figured out a single logical reason (or even multiple) for why the majority of these challenges got cut but other similar ones were kept. They required contracts? No, there are still challenges included which need contracts or are much easier with contracts. Quality Assurance? Maybe for a handful but 95+% of the cut challenges were fine/good, on the same level as many of the challenges they kept, not Sister Yulduz levels of hard. Too grindy/long to complete, like the Isle of Sgail challenges they cut in Hitman 2? Maybe, but then they were willing to add challenges in Freelancer which take 500+ hours of playtime to complete, long after the mode starts to feel repetitive, and over 200 times the amount of playtime any of the other grinding challenges would take to do.

My best guess is that with Hitman 3’s much lower budget, they didn’t have the money or time to make sure all the legacy challenges were properly implemented. Then again, that raises the question of why they never re-added them again post launch, like they did in Hitman 2.

Anyway, what this all boils down to is that this legacy stuff is what I’d rather see them bring back instead of the same exact legacy Elusive Targets for the umpteenth time; almost all of them have been freely playable in the Arcade (with some restrictions) for years now. I’m sure the brand new upcoming ET will be at least decent to play and probably make some good changes to whatever map it’s on, but it still will suffer from all the problems with the design of ETs. Getting the legacy content back before support on the game ends is the aspect of Hitman 3 I’m most passionate about, a close second being Hokkaido’s map finally getting fixed. This is what I am willing to write whole essay posts on.

[Dribbleondo]

@lukefsje

Yeah they probably did have their reasons, but boy I’ve never figured out a single logical reason (or even multiple) for why the majority of these challenges got cut but other similar ones were kept

Probably because each challenge had their own reasons for being cut or not reworked. There’s a lot of challenges, It stands to reason they all have different reasons for falling on the chopping block. Of course, that’s not a palatable answer and not a simple one either, but reality is not simple.

And I don’t think the budget had anything to do with it. It’d be more work to remove them, not keep them as-is. Remember, their server setup has been largely unchanged since 2016 (hence the change of the upper limit of allowed inventory items per player).

@lukefsje

especially the Discovery challenges (Take Ambrose’s challenges: Find the hook, Find the 4 diary entries, Find a molotov, Find a bone lockpick, Find a durian).

The discovery challenges are deliberately quite simple, but even then, the examples you gave do actually require either disguises to get at or sneaking into restricted areas (the notable exception being the lockpick), so they are more nuanced and involved than you’re making them out to be.

@lukefsje

or eliminating someone with the iron maiden while disguised as a butler

That required you to disguise as the butler (who isn’t allowed anywhere but the Keep and the lower floors/ normal public areas) and traverse to the top of the glass tower. A tower that has lots of guards everywhere, and the only way past them is by climbing.

Even your upcoming challenge (can’t wait btw!) is arguably easier as the map is surprisingly SA/SO friendly, despite the bodyguard count, and Athena isolates herself.

@lukefsje

They cut out a challenge like Pacify 5 people with muffins in Whittleton Creek, but were fine with adding Pacify 1 target with a briefcase while disguised as a server.

Because finding 5 people to pacify for a challenge, with an item that has unique pacification properties feels like busywork imo. Doing it for the sakes of doing it. At the very least the briefcase one is something that can happen in gameplay, so you pinging it by accident is actually a good thing here.

@lukefsje

but 95+% of the cut challenges were fine/good

That feels like an exaggeration? Had you said 65% - 70%, I probably wouldn’t have questioned that. But 95%? Come one now.

@lukefsje

Maybe, but then they were willing to add challenges in Freelancer which take 500+ hours of playtime to complete, long after the mode starts to feel repetitive, and over 200 times the amount of playtime any of the other grinding challenges would take to do.

That’s not exactly a fair comparison. With maybe of the exception of “Cold Feet” which just perverses incentives to play a map, most of the challenges are deliberately designed to be achieved in the background. It’s not something you actively go for, and that’s fine imo. I agree, Freelancer is grindy for the hell of it, but these challenges are not an issue that even needs addressing (again, notable exception of Cold Feet, which should just be removed).

@lukefsje

a close second being Hokkaido’s map finally getting fixed.

What happened to Hokkaido?

[lukefsje]

@Dribbleondo

they are more nuanced and involved than you’re making them out to be.

One might also argue that the challenges which were cut out were more nuanced and involved than you made them out to be when you called half of them fetch quests

@lukefsje

95+% of the cut challenges were fine/good

Everyone has their own opinions of which challenges are good or not, and yeah I was exaggerating some. I’d say the challenges cut which were straight up bad are Tuppence a Wish, Slam Dunk, The Hero of Santa Fortuna, All the King’s Men, and Making Waves. Other cut challenges like Colorado’s Birth of the Scarecrow or Aquatic Savior in Miami are pretty easy to do, but I wouldn’t say they’re bad, doing them doesn’t take away from the positive vibes of playing Hitman. And again I would rather they tried to rework the bad ones to be better instead of totally cutting them out.

@Dribbleondo

your upcoming challenge (can’t wait btw!)

On that subject, what did you think of Forged in Fire? Did it get the Dribbleondo Seal of Approval?

@Dribbleondo

What happened to Hokkaido?

Hokkaido’s map on Level 1 has never displayed properly in Hitman 3. Here it is in Hitman 2:

Here’s how it was in Hitman 3 early on:

And here is how it’s been since the October Patch in Year 2, they fixed some of the missing details on the sides but not the most noticeable omission in the garden area:

It just irks me seeing a big gray void in the middle of the map, and it doesn’t seem like it’d be that hard to fix but then again the issue with the coin in Freelancer seems to be simple too but they haven’t done that either.

Anyway, Celebrity Elusive Target! I think it’d be funny if it was Ronda Rousey. For that matter, there hasn’t been a female celebrity ET yet and only 25% of the Hitman 3 ETs have had women as targets.

[THAT]

John Cena. Yes, he’s invisible (testing out new stealth technology for Kronstadt)

[Dribbleondo]

@lukefsje

On that subject, what did you think of Forged in Fire? Did it get the Dribbleondo Seal of Approval?

I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic or not, but I will say that yes, it has my approval, not that it means too much I feel. Once I worked out where the Braziers were, it was a nice lil’ “Guard this torch with your life!” challenge. Definitely very unique too, as it also teaches you what will snuff the flame out (throwing kills it, dropping does not, even if it falls off a cliff).

I felt so happy learning that.

@lukefsje

Hokkaido’s map on Level 1 has never displayed properly in Hitman 3. Here it is in Hitman 2:

Ohhh, that’s…very odd. I Might look into this for the community patches mod.

[Heisenberg]

@Dribbleondo

it also teaches you what will snuff the flame out (throwing kills it, dropping does not, even if it falls off a cliff).

Don’t know if you were already aware of it or not, but hitting someone with it as a melee weapon also puts it out.

[Dribbleondo]

I found that out the hard way.

[Heisenberg]

Same.

[lukefsje]

Not being sarcastic, just craving positive affirmation. Glad to know you liked it! Hope you like The Great Thief too!

[Lewisnic1]

Here we go!!

[Captain_Ah_Vong]

I really do wonder where they’d put this ET on if it takes place inside a caged circle. My personal hope would be a night-time Haven with the swimming pool bar replaced by the circle!