PLEASE revert the "Collateral" change to Freelancer

The entire point of the Freelancer gamemode is a gamemode where you ARE NOT forced to play the same way you usually do on all main game missions.

This change to Freelancer is going to extremely limit the freedom of the player into a more stealth and careful playstyle. If anything the Collateral change should be its own objective on certain contracts, not a universal change. This update has the potential to make Freelancer a much much less fun gamemode. Please reconsider.

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Please also consider undoing the change that killing all suspects indiscriminately in showdown always results in a merces punishment. This should also be an optional objective, as this is in my opinion a valid and logical strategy that some players will find much more fun than being forced to do the investigations.

Again the name of the game here is “freedom of choice”. If you specifically want a mission to be played stealthily then having this limitation as an objective is a good way of doing so, but as a universal change it will limit player freedom.

Does it not make perfect sense that a contractor who wants you to kill a large number of people might not always be angry if you kill some random mook as long as all the actual targets are still taken care of? I think punishment for collateral should be a thing for contractors who specifies a professional or stealthy approach, but not for every single one.

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IMO, there’s a line somewhere between “freedom of choice” and “this game is what it is”. Hitman has always encouraged a specific style of play - that being a stealth-based approach. They allow other play styles through the use of loud weapons, grenades, and other tools but the core game play has always been stealth-based.

The idea of punishing the player with a monetary consequence for killing non-targets accomplishes the goals of encouraging the traditional Hitman play style while still allowing non-traditional styles as well. If the game wanted to seriously discourage killing non-targets, they’d just make doing so an instant-fail complication.

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But why make it a universal change if the ENTIRE point of Freelancer is to not just feel like the main campaign? This change goes completely against the entire point of making this gamemode

I do not WANT to be to be encouraged play Freelancer like traditional Hitman.because I am already encouraged to play every single other level in the game like traditional Hitman. This was supposed to be something new and exciting.

I thought Freelancer was going to give us the CHOICE if we wanted to play it like traditional Hitman, not point fingers and us and tell us to stop having fun the wrong way. This was finally a gamemode where silent assassin wasn’t the only way to play the game correctly.

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You’re wanting to kill indiscriminately to get to the “bad-guys”, but in the process doing “bad-guy stuff” yourself.

You don’t see the conflict in this line of thinking?

This is why I had "Get into Negative Merces :smiling_imp: " as one of the poll choices in the other topic.

Maybe you can let loose once you’ve bought all the killing stuff and don’t need or care for having Merces.

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No.
I really don’t give a damn about the people I’m being contracted to kill being the “bad guy”, that’s a bad excuse for premeditated murder. You’re supposed to play as a Hitman, not a cop. You follow the contract, not morals or the law. When I push a woman into the grape crusher on Mendoza I certainly don’t feel like Agent 47 is Mother Theresa or Mahatma Gandhi.

I care about this gamemode being different from the main campaign, because if it isn’t then it’s just going to be more of the same and that doesn’t sound very fun to me. I don’t want another gamemode where the only thing that matters is silent assassin. I have already beat every single destination silent assassin and SASO on all but 3 levels I will get to eventually.

I was looking forward to a gamemode that would be different from the campaign. If this gamemode will not feel different from the campaign then I am going to probably only play whatever Freelance missions will unlock new weapons and outfits (if any).

I think if this Collateral change remains in Freelancer, the vast majority of players are going to find this boring after a few missions. I think people who want to play Freelancer like Agent 47 usually would should do so, but I DESPISE the idea that people who want to have fun need to be punished.

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I guess I’ll reserve my judgements depending on how big the penalty is, but I like that there’s a penalty.

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Ehh, don’t jump the gun on this yet!

It might be a frustrating-sounding change, but it also could be a very minor penalty, one that you’ll only see have an effect on your Merces earnings if you kill 5 or more civvies, for example.
I get the reasoning behind it, and makes the idea of playstyle, combat, risk, and strategy much more complicated — making it valid, but not the easiest playstyle you can exploit to finish each level fastest (especially with the new Base Payout)

(The fact they inflated the amount of Merces value by the hundreds, makes me think they’ll now start dealing penalties in “decimals” like 10-50 Merces for Civilians or Suspects killed :person_shrugging:)

Fingers crossed IMO :crossed_fingers:

EDIT: quite a few of my runs in the CTT ended up with me murdering a bunch of NPCs that were in my way, just because I could and there was no consequence for it. It felt really cheap after a while, since I could come back later and the whole level is reset, no big deal
That’s clearly a strategy/meta issue, but I do hope this change isn’t TOO drastic…

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i’ve not played the mode yet, but this seems a little hyperbolic. being penalised for killing civilians doesn’t mean that freelancer is encouraging silent assassin style gameplay. there are more parameters to getting sa than that (no guard deaths, no sightings, etc.) and it is a little disingenuous to suggest this one change makes the entire mode “more of the same”.

maybe wait till the mode is out to see what’s up first.

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I don’t even get the assertion that Silent Assassin is required in the main game either. You totally have the freedom to do a ‘shoot em all’ style approach in any main mission where your only goal is to kill the targets and leave. The rating will tell you you’ve done a bad job at being a stealthy silent assassin, but that’s just because you have… if that’s literally your intent then it’s no problem at all. Nothing forces you to play a certain way, the stealth rating is there for those who do like to play a certain way. I feel like players put up more walls for themselves than the rating system ever has.

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I almost never get Silent Assassin, by design, because I don’t care whether I get Silent Assassin or not. In Freelancer, if I decide to kill a bunch of civilians, and then get penalized for it, I’m going to be fine with it because the monetary penalty (I’m assuming) is likely to be less than the potential Merces award for doing the objectives (including the Prestige Objective).

The only difference between the “new” way that Freelancer will work and the way that the Closed Technical Test worked, in terms of civilian casualties, seems to be the monetary penalty for killing civilians. If there is no penalty for killing civilians, than there is really nothing stopping you from just wiping out the whole map, which is clearly not the intended goal.

Also, there isn’t going to be “whatever Freelance missions will unlock new weapons and outfits”. It’s an entirely different mode with its own unlocks, its own mastery, and its own objectives. The challenges and unlocks are based entirely on mastery and how many times you play, not on doing specific missions or completing specific maps. I’d say to wait until the mode is out and you’ve had a chance to play it before you it, personally.

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I’ve asserted in the past… Take, for example, the Light Rig kill of Victor Novikov. I do find it reasonable that there would be collateral damage to bystanders that are closest to the stage. There’s always a -5,000 ₧ deduction. If you were just out to get the job done… I can see this happening. It’s not the best or cleanest kill - but you do what you’ve got to do. And the fact there are innocent bystanders makes it look all the more like a most unfortunate freak accident.

Now. If you were to mow down the majority of bystanders on your way to blast Novikov in the face… And I’m assuming the OP is begging the devs to allow this because that’s the most fun way to play for some reason… Well gosh.

Maybe they can have… Instead of skulls by the map they have a :baby: mode for those that lack the patience and discipline to play the intended way. And best of all; no Merces penalty. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

Anyway… I do feel this topic is almost flame-bait, even if the OP is sincere. :sweat_smile:

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Why do you want to kill everyone in a stealth game, see it as a kind of fun and struggle to keep the freedom to do a massacre? :sweat_smile:
Go and play gta or Postal if you love massacre :sweat_smile:
more stealth and careful playstyle = much much less fun?
What are you talking about? Hitman IS a stealth game, care and patience is what makes it different. Maybe you should reflect yourself for being unclear about what hitman is?

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I think then the idea of raising alert on the maps ahead should really be part of the mode as well. I like that. You make a mess, the coming maps get more enforcers.

Isn’t there a notoriety system in freelancer? I thought I read that before.

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Because I have played the entire game in stealth mode already. I have done silent assassin on all maps, and I have done SASO on all but 3 of the maps I have not gotten to yet. This is Hitman, not “Stealthman”. If I wanted to play a game that was only about steaöth I’d play Splinter cell or the Thief games.

Hitman is variety, and the whole point of freelancer was that it was supposed to be more free than the regular gamemodes. I don’t want to play the entirely of Freelancer the exact same way I’ve already been playing the game, if that happens I am just going to ignore this gamemode for adding nothing new.

Honestly I really don’t understand why you people would be opposed to being allowed more options to play, that to me makes no sense at all. Please stop telling IOI to make their games less fun.

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This has been mentioned multiple times now, but no one is forcing you to play in a specific way. You are not being forced to only play using stealth. You are absolutely free to play however you want to.

The only change that IOI made in this regard to is to implement a small penalty for killing non-target characters. If you don’t care about that minor penalty, kill the whole map. We don’t even know how much the penalty will be. It could be one single Merces for all we know.

You’re still free to knock out anyone you want. You don’t have to hide the bodies or only kill via accidents. You can bring a loud shotgun and shoot every single character in the leg without any penalty whatsoever.

The only thing you are being penalized for it killing non-target civilian characters. If you can’t make this mode work given that single restriction on your game play, find a different game to play.

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@schatenjager Has the most sane take, everyone’s overreacting.

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apologies if i have the wrong end of the stick here, but if the essence of hitman is in its variety, it doesn’t make much sense to (seemingly) play the regular game modes in such a rigid way.

what do you want to do in a freelancer where you’re financially penalised for offing civilians that you can’t already do in the main game?

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I just want ONE damn gamemode where I might actually be encouraged to use the absolute SEA of unsilenced and loud weapons as well as all the illegal explosives and swords and shit that IOI keeps releasing as unlockable items but have 0 use in the main game because your score is always penalized for using them and there are practically no challenges in the main destinations that ever encourage you to use them.

The literally only time you can SOMETIMES find challenges where you are rewarded for playing with the weapons that IOI designed not to be stealthy are in a few escelations and some contracts you might come across.

I though Freelancer might finally be a gamemode where I can use all the shitty weapons that have no use and no reward in the regular destinations in the game. Some variety for a change and maybe a reason to actually use otherwise dumb unlocks like the golden AK 47 or the glowing neon katana.

Because this game is filled with unlocks that you have literally no good use for in the main campaign of this game because you are discouraged from using them and there exists barely any at all destination challenges rewarding you for using them.

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how does being financially disincentivised for killing civilians relate to the use of loud weapons?

you can do all that in the main game though…?

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