The negativity towards Hitman 3

I dont mind it personally, theyre consistently updating the game so the reactions to bloom are less harsh. They lessened it two updates ago and in the last update made bloom less harsh again in an attic. It’s clearly an ongoing process but you cant not argue it’s better than Hitman 2’s

And the other half of the game doesn’t have that at all. Mendoza and Romania have no commentary, Berlin doesn’t have it if you don’t pick up an earpiece. Even Grey in Dubai has like three lines if you’re playing the map normally. It makes sense for him to hold the players hand in the first playthrough of many people’s first full Hitman level

But you can’t do everything in a map in a single day. Hitman 3’s design philosophy is to deliberately not have as many challenges so people figure it out for themselves. For example you don’t get a challenge for dropping cubes on Marcus, pushing him into the water, dropping a speaker on him or electrocuting him




https://youtu.be/DFnfwxpfXzQ I started an argument with an obscure Hitman guy (a 2016 purist) on the topic of Hitman 3 potentially being a disappointment. I didnt like his tone but i was being super smug as well so i apologised. Then he just insulted me and this entire forum after i apologised! I do not understand this thing of Hitman 2016 purists, and most of them are cool guys like i think most speedrunners i follow think 2016 was the peak mechanically but i dont understand the vitrol ed has here. It legitimately pissed me off. I dont play these games to get into arguments with people and i just feel tired

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Seems you’re pretty new to the forum. Ed II3 is former hitmanforum member (i thought he is still around here). He was always friendly and and didn’t insult anyone.
He is a very experienced player, speedrunner and also a cool buddy to share runs with. He was always very active in playing community contracts. He loves this game series since Hitman 2016.

So i will try to explain to you why he is so disappointed (Not to excuse insults, but why he might react that pissed.
It’s like Alex said. 2016 was such a polished game with much freedom and many cool opportunities. The list of challenges you could do was overhelming. For contract mode there where so many cool npc’s with unique routes and triggers. The game was complex af and hard to learn when you’re new.
I played Hitman 2016 more than 4000 hours and ED II3 also did. This game offers so many unique appproaches.
Then Hitman 2 came. It had great new features like the briefcase, flash grenates, ko bombs, accidental ko’s. But the game was half a year after release a broken mess until the major bugs were finally fixed. The levels were complex (Miami, Mumbai) and fun and IO managed to realise a lot of community wishes.

Now Hitman 3 is what Hakan said: It’s the end of the trilogy.
And IO exactly brought that. Hitman 3 is defently a masterpiece, but more in therms of the story telling, the cinematic vibe and visuals.
Hitman 3 looks better than any Hitman before. BUT

The levels are less complex, very few challenges and mastery. The cycles of npc’s are in general more simple and less complex as they were in H2016 and H2. The levels are easier and faster to learn, which makes them faster uninteresting because you know and did everything in a quick time. With everything i mean everything (Hitmaps is in your head :wink: )

Hitman 3 still has the tranquilizing bug since H2, wallglitches and other anoying mini bugs. The reactions of npcs aren’t as precise and predictable as they were in H2016. You have more randomness and unlogic, buggy npc behavivour. Unstable rules (some doors can be shot open, others not, even it is the same door type), it would be an endless list of the little things that are worse than 2016 in therms of game mechanics. And they probably never be fixed.
Contracts mode has no improvement since H2016 and i have to say that i feel kind of “betrayed”, asking the community for feedback how to improve contracts mode just not improve anything. The community posted so many cool ideas that give this game a much higher replay value.
Hitman 3 simply has not the same replay value imo as H2 and H2016. The levels and kill methods, the npc cycles are less complex. I start to get bored after 6 months of playing the game cause there’s nothing left to do.
New stuff is useless or buggy. The escalations are too restricted for my taste and have no replay value. It’s the new type of content which is great for “Some times” players but isn’t worth for hardcore players.
I don’t want to share negativity towards H3 here cause i love IOI and respect their work and creativity but i hope you can now understand his point of view.

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It is a trend sadly that many from the H2016 days who genuinely had fun with the game and spread positivity about it became very bitter about Hitman and IO.

I can understand much of the criticism about the game and decisions of the developers. I can also understand when people praise H2016 for the crisp and deterministic mechanics and miss them in the later games. I too don’t see me playing H3 as much as I played H2, which is mostly because no new mechanics and/or no new contract mode features make it hard for me to get new things out of existing maps.

But many of those players completely lose it. :frowning: I guess it is easier to cope with the disappointment when you stop searching for the reasons, stop giving constructive feedback and just disregard the game and the developers in their entirety as flawed, lazy, greedy and misguided. Then you cannot be disappointed anymore by IO not reacting the exact way you want them to you.

H2 was a buggy mess due new mechanics and overhauls. For H3 IO decided to not do that again to be sure it is less buggy when they put the trilogy into the showcase with the last patch. But you cannot come along with “H2 was buggy but at least it has new features!” and expect to not at least get some different opinions on that.

I want this to not be understood as ironic. I am honestly thankful for everyone who completely dislikes the game and the developers and decided to not join this forum to walk against walls. I wish everyone the best to find the joy they are missing with Hitman.

I personally am more here for the users who express their joy with Hitman like I had with H2016 than I like Hitman myself. I still have fun with the game! I also am still willing to share constructive feedback. But always, also since H2016, the most fun thing about this is sharing experience with others. And it would be a damn shame if tainted nostalgia ruins it for those who have fun.

I liked Ed’s stuff. I understand where his opinion comes from. But that does not excuse to tell others that giving feedback and tickets is useless and everyone here is just praising the game without criticism.

You can find others who behave like him, but please don’t drag their comments in here. They decided to not be here, let’s understand that decision as a mutual agreement. Also please don’t start insulting them yourself.

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I wasn’t around for the original rollout of Hitman 2016. I came on board after watching some outside xbox videos of them playing and thought it looked interesting. I never even knew that Hitman 2016 existed until sometime in the second half of 2019 I think. I remember playing some of the older games though which ones I honestly couldn’t say. I didn’t think they were especially great at the time but I can see why some admire them now.

I played Hitman 2 before playing Hitman 2016 and I remember being surprised at how much harder levels like Paris and Hokkaido were than Whittleton Creek and Santa Fortuna. The challenges in Hitman 2016 were particularly hard when compared to a lot of the Hitman 2 ones.

I bought Hitman 3 on pre-order and I really anticipated the new levels. After following the game development pretty hard for that year I wasn’t too surprised at the lack of game mechanic additions. To me it was just more of the game I already liked. The fact that it was a bit easier than the first ones felt, to me, like maybe I was just better at it or maybe I had more unlockable stuff that made things easier.

In retrospect though the game probably was actually easier by design. The narrative of the game was woven more closely into the levels I think. In Hitman 1 and 2, the level was pretty much about killing the target but not really advancing the plot. That was done far more in the cutscenes than in the level itself. By Hitman 3, the levels provided more of the plot line and it didn’t rely as much on the cutscenes to drive things forward (I think, anyway).

I didn’t expect a lot of innovation in Hitman 3 (for reason that I’ve pretty well documented elsewhere on this forum) and I never had a problem with some of the most commented on issues (don’t care about “bloom” or lighting, contracts mode doesn’t really interest me, etc.). I still like the game and look foward to the new stuff that comes out in the roadmaps each month but I can understand why people may be getting turned off of it. After 6 years of playing (basically) the same game, it takes more than a slight twist on a level to keep you interested. A one-play escalation doesn’t provide a month’s worth of entertainment.

I know IOI are trying to keep the game fresh and provide continued add-on value, and I think they do a fairly good job most of the time, but there’s always going to be things to complain about. Every player approaches this game differently. Some of them focus almost exclusively on how to make and play a good contract. Some of them are focused on replayability and how much time they can throw at a level. Some of them look for how quickly they can whittle a level down to. Some are just one-and-done players who never load the same map twice. These are all equally fine ways to play the game and none of them should be put down, nor should the opinions of those who see the game differently.

Consider that we’re all still debating the merits and flaws of a game that is (essentially) over half a decade old and that really says something about the game, what it was, what it is, and what it could be.

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Agreed.
I think H3 is the best entry so far, but part of that is probably because of how small-scale and less ambitious (gameplay-wise) it was. Levels are more compact and easier/quicker to learn. You’re not faced with a wall of daunting challenges. It features some of the coolest and most unique mission structures in the Trilogy so far.

Some of that is a turn off for some, and yeah, I get where they’re coming from.

But to accuse IO of being willingly lazy, greedy, and misdirecting their fans is ludicrous. IOI is one of the few independent AAA developers out there, and from what I’ve witnessed the past 4-ish years, it’s that they are very proud of their fanbase and community, and more often than not do their best to please the fans. The communication is off sometimes and they aren’t the best at bug-fixes, but plans change in the game-dev world and honestly I think the Hitman engine and the way it’s built can probably be hard to work with (juggling so many different NPC reactions at once).

The Seven Deadly Sins DLC is unfortunately a huge shadow cast over the fanbase, and I totally get the weariness about the price tag and confusion about the content.
But I think it’s very important to look at what the situation (probably) is and accept it:

  • The Hitman 3 team at IOI have mostly probably moved on to other projects within the studio, and the smaller team that stayed on for H3 to support the 1-2 years of live service updates have to make the most of limited resources, budget, and planning.
  • So, the resources are spread even thinner when it comes to making content. Escalations, ETs, 7DS DLCs. Sponsored contracts help with some sort of content, and it’s nice that there’s even more free unlocks in the future, but what we have now is probably what we’ll get. Plus with the “almost bonus mission” event happening soon, that’s also probably why the Sloth season feels pretty empty with new things to do right now.

Hitman 3 definitely isn’t perfect and there’s still a lot of fan wishes yet to be fulfilled, but this is the reality of the situation and none of it seems motivated by ill intent to me.
Fingers crossed they can get the programming team to add in some existing complications to Contracts Mode within the next year.

(What I don’t get is… why are people mad about the Snail Mine? It’s a unique item – not a re-skin like the other 7DS’s, not overpowered in that it’s a free, legal accident kill like the E-phone. How is it pay-to-win? This makes the DLC way more worth it.)

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In terms of Roulette Rivals its far stronger than the phone

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Thats fine and all, Hitman 2 is my favorite of the trilogy personally with maybe 2016 as my second favorite (Berlin is my favorite level of the trilogy but im more likely to go back to 1/2 than 3, but i still like 3. My problem isnt he dislikes 3 but his attitude) but my problem with Ed is just that i apologised for being smug in other comments on his video, i put behind that i felt he was being a prick, and he throws it back in my face. Why am being insulted over my opinion on a video game? I know the scripture says judge not but this guy’s a jerk!

I dont mind this item in theory. It might be strong but it doesnt make it broken or cheap, it’s not a win button as you can easily waste it. I get that the 2016 game was more pure of an experience but thats cause it doesnt have many useful items. The machete and the tonfa arent setting the world on fire. As long as the item isnt an electric phone situation where it’s a win button i say screw balancing. Like if theres an item in a single player game like that electric phone from 2 (which i didnt use anyway) i think thats dumb as it kinda messes with the difficulty curve. However using the sieker on a target still requires you to not get caught and then this snail thing still requires you to give up a lockpick or a poison syringe or a breaching charge or a briefcade with the kalmer in it (i know ammo overlaps, that might be a bug as dribbleondo says)

But yeah i dont really know these people. I watch a lot of hitman on youtube but dont really talk to people, except my friend frogoat who im trying to get into the series. I do my own cool speedruns and am trying to show off cool kills ive found. I just am kind of like a philistine proudly. Like i genuinely believe in “if you dont like it dont watch it”, and ed i feel if he doesnt like Hitman 2 or 3, he couldve voted with his wallet and not bought it on launch. He could go back to 2016, maybe in ten years there will be a mod to give Hitman 3 2016’s mechanics. I dont understand the idea of everyone having a go

11 posts were merged into an existing topic: Seven Deadly Sins Act 3: Sloth

Ok then! A couple of things:

1.

I can’t decide which of these was funnier to read, but on first glance I think I’m going with the latter. :laughing:

Anyway, more importantly…

2.

While I said check out the forum if you want to ‘blindly support’ in the partially quoted conversation from YT a few posts above, I would hope that anyone with a decent level of comprehension and emotional intelligence would understand that that’s not a slur on the entire forum, or a slur at all for that matter. I have, in fact, met many Hitmen and Hitwomen on this forum since 2016 that I respect as players and people. It’s been incredible to watch some of them arrive onto the scene from this platform and YT/Twitch, and evolve into some of the best players of this game in the world. Many have left for various reasons, and some have stayed, including a couple who have very eloquently elaborated on and explained in detail in posts above why I and quite a few others have certain feelings towards the direction this trilogy has taken.

While this is the case, I think it’s also fair to say there is an element on the forum who will uncritically support anything IO release; while I don’t think it’s helpful in terms of encouraging developers to raise the quality bar, it’s fine to do that if you enjoy it, and this is the perfect place to do so (as it’s the ‘official’ spot for it anyway).

If anyone did take this the wrong way, or didn’t see the video itself as a ‘serious joke’, or trashy little piece of art it took five minutes to knock up as a piece of commentary reflecting my opinion on the current poor state of the game, then my apologies for bruising the feels.

And just to clarify, I’m also still here, albeit obscurely (apparently). :hearts:

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wow… i have not purchased hitman 3 so i did not know about this unlock. but when i saw it in this video, i was shocked. i thought IOI had learnt their lesson with the electrocution phone, but i had no idea how much more gamebreaking and OP the items were going to be.

you might as well add an item that is a button that kills the target instantly, like what the washington sisters have for the constant.

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I disagree, but let’s both forget about it. Water under the bridge

It’s almost as overpowered as the lethal syringe. Nah but seriously it’s useful, too useful, for most situations but it’s not an outright win button imo. I still would change it if i was in charge to have a smaller radius but the idea of it is on the same level as the kalmer to me. Hitman Blood Money let you have free accident kills on NPCs, this is a similar principle imo. Ideally it would get some tweaking but it’s interesting to have a non-reskin item, i dont think that phone should become a boogeyman for IO when making items. There should ideally be a spreadsheet that outlaws certain items gimmicks like lethal gases for example. Is there a thread to report not bugs but to report feedback here? So weapon balance suggestions could be taken into consideration for IOI, then again i dont know if theyd approve of that. I still think an ideal solution is to do what TF2 did in 2017 and suggest stats for weapons before the item is released and have fans provide feedback towards it

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I couldn’t agree anymore with this!! :+1:t2:

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very weird video, alotta personal opinions i dont agree with but some parts like the comparison of free to paid content are decent. i was wondering what yall think of it

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Watched the video and I must say I totally agree on everything.
You know, it’s actually like somebody did break into my head and stole all my thoughts and emotions about the game.
I’m glad somebody expressed that, even though it’s like a fart in a water…

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2ae6l4-suU
since we’re posting videos now

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It costs 10 times as much to locate and sell to a new customer as it does to an existing one. That reason alone should act as sufficient incentive to attempt to build brick walls around customer relationships in order to deter predatory competitors; and there are plenty of those out there. The following is what can happen when a customer is dissatisfied and it is not handled correctly:

  • One unhappy customer tells 10 to 15 others about the experience. If it’s really bad he or she will tell the whole world.
  • For every complaint that could be made, around 20 people don’t bother complaining. This means 20 lost opportunities.
  • If you handle a complaint badly or with a “couldn’t care less” attitude, or, worse still, if you hide behind the “rule book,” you will lose that customer for good.

It’s a short article that anyone can take a quick look :slight_smile:

I only need to take a good look at the Reported Issues thread, remember the one made for Hitman 2 and how " efficient " IO is in solving them, the whole 7DS DLC controversy and many other issues I have with WoA since H2016, always online being at the top, to come to the conclusion that I don’t like this direction that IO has taken their games and I can’t recommend it to the few friends I have that are interested in it.
Told 'em I’ll buy it and we can do family share :stuck_out_tongue:

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Out of curiosity, what competitors does Hitman actually have? I’m not talking about something as broad as a “stealth-based game”. I’m talking about some other game where you have a large sandbox environment with a broadly defined target, potentially unlimited ways to finish the level, stealth mechanics, a contract-creation system, etc. I think Hitman is pretty much it as I haven’t found anything else that is directly comparable.

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I think it moreorless lies within the broader sense of release titles rather than a specific genre of games like stealth or action. In November 2018, Hitman 2 was released, which by the same month saw Fallout 76 being released and Red Dead Redemption 2 released a month before that - two marginally well-known games amongst others that easily set the precedent for hyped marketing.

I definitely remember around the time Hitman 2 had expediently wider appeal. Trailer releases and E3 footage were just some of the ways of hyped marketing, and at the time didn’t have the consensus being a “dead on arrival” game simply because Hitman 2016 saw ample praise for being favourable than the typical niche genre it harped around at the time - battle royal being very popular.

Now we’re here - Hitman 3 is almost dying out and an angry wrath of pissed off customers were angry at it being EGS exclusive and how PC players almost had to repurchase H1/H2 locations the second time. To be fair its playerbase is already booming, most notably because of community mods/events - but also, a very buggy Cyberpunk 2077 was released a month before Hitman 3 did.

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Lol so salty and disrespectful when he starts talking about the F7SC batch. Poor guy.

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