The problem with this mission

first i want to say that i do love this mission because it gives me more freedom for creative kills and also finally giving me a chance to use guns.

now. the thing is. if those are trained ICA agents it would be great if they actually hunted you and not only you hunt them. like, if they were switching disguises trying to assasinate you.

but instead they are just moving targets which you have no danger. if they are skilled assasins they should be as good as you and trying to hunt you as well

if they did that it would be much better. remember how in hitman blood money there were 2 woman assasin i believe. one in the christmas party and one in vegas. and when you entered a room without looking they killed you.

that kind of thing.

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Yeah, i do think they’re pretty ineffective. I understand not using disguises as the tutorial does point out that 47 is doing something different.

However, I think maybe a few should be more effective. The closest we really get is the ambush. Not even the sniper dude does anything. Perhaps he could have taken shots at you if in that area out of disguise or compromised.

Still, it’s a great mission, even if the rest of the agency seems to be terrible at their job!

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Great level indeed but its 1 vs. 11 so you’d havd no chances if they were hunting you down.

We did have stalkers in some escalations as well as guard NPC such as Noel, and the paintings thief changing disguise as elusive target, not to mention they would likely enforce you even if you did so…

This is 47 we’re talking about. This is a guy that managed to get away from hundreds of Police in the mission Hunter & Hunted from Hitman: Contracts :grin:

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They are hunting you. That’s why they’re there and why they are enforcers for almost every disguise; if you get in their line of sight, they spot you and start shooting.

That’s the thing: even being skilled assassins, they’re not as good as 47. That’s one of his defining characteristics, that he’s the absolute best. That’s why they had to send a small army after him in -

(checks notes)

-every game he’s in. It’s a trope called Assassin Outclassin, and 47 does it every time.

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The interview with Game Maker’s Toolkit shows that while there were ideas to make ICA agents more threatening, they did not work well. The current version is probably the best we could have gotten without reinventing the game mechanics entirely.

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they are not hunting you. not really. they stay passive and walk in loops unless they detect you, meaning. you are the one who need to come to them and then they shoot you if they detect you.

what i meant is if they were trying to assasinate you in various ways while you are also trying to hunt them. and not like its in right now that you are the one hunting them and they just blend in the crowd

and i brought up the examples from blood money of the 2 assasins, one is the rocky mountains and one in vegas that if you enter the room with them unaware they kill you.

this is what i meant. that if they are ica agents and they are disguised they should have been more active

These are describing the same thing. You enter their area and don’t avoid their sight/be ready to react, they attack and kill you. The fact that the ones in Berlin are patrolling particular areas and see through all but one disguise is exactly what makes it active hunting, because you must avoid them while finding some way to take them out.

its not the same thing. they are not activly looking for you. you need to enter their line of sight in order for them to shoot you. they cant kill you from behind. they function exactly like npc’s only suspicious ones (dot above the head). but they arnt acting like professional trained assasins who trying to assasinate unoticed.

They are walking around an area and are enforcers, meaning if they get close to you, they will see you. In this game, that is actively hunting you, with only The Mercenary’s bodyguards in Sarajevo 6 being a more literal example. Admittedly, that would have been better if they could have done that again. But as far as the terms of this game goes, the fact that they’re moving around and are attuned to your disguises is what counts as actively hunting you down. They are not concerned with assassinating you unnoticed because they are after 47, who is far more dangerous than any normal target they go after; they are not going off of their usual methods. They are concerned with finding him and then just straight killing him the second they can, witnesses or no witnesses to not give him a chance to get the upper hand.

you compleatly miss my point. THEY CANT KILL YOU UNLESS YOU ARE ENTERING THEIR LINE OF SIGHT. why do you continue to argue with facts? they are not hunting you, you are hunting them. if they were hunting you they could kill you from behind and you would die alot. you have them identified from far away, all you need is to be in the area and you have them marked and you can avoid them easily. they have no idea where you are. the only thing that seperate them from the rest is that they have a dot above their head no matter the disguise. they are exactly like NPC’S who’s suspicious.

No shit! Guess what? That’s how hunting works! You can’t kill them without having them in your sight either! Even if you set up an accident kill, you have to first know who and where they are and where they go. And if you kill them in a traditional way, they have to be in your line of sight for you to do it.

Why do you continue to apply the wrong context to the facts?

Both things are happening at the same time! Just because they have a specified patrol area doesn’t change that from being the case. Unlike other enforcers who won’t just start shooting first but will try to question you first, these guys start attacking you the minute they spot you. And while you can avoid them, the fact that they are there in the first place is to try to find you. They are stationed all over the map, and they are your targets as much as you are their’s, so it doesn’t matter if you can avoid them, you’re whole goal is to kill them, and to do that, especially if you’re aiming for SA, you’re gonna have to either get close, or be somewhere along their path, which runs the risk of getting caught. Not to mention that you can’t go anywhere important on the map without running the risk of coming across one of their paths.

As the only targets in the game outside of The Mercenary and Noel Crest that are armed, and therefore can and do shoot you if they catch you, and that they are actively looking for you, which is signified by their ability to see through your disguises and attacking immediately if they spot you, that is them hunting you, like assassins scanning the crowd for their target in the area they’ve been assigned to patrol. If you think your examples of the two women in Blood Money who don’t even attack you unless you go to them (just like these assassins) proves your point in any way, then you’re being willfully obtuse.

i will make it simple for you.

they cant kill you from behind without you seeing them. thats what i meant

I’ll make it simple for you: if I’m standing on the path of one, facing away from the direction he’s going to be coming from, and he gets in range of spotting me and I keep facing away, he’ll pull out his gun and shoot me, and it could kill me, all while I never see him. So, your statement is false.

What it sounds like you’re trying to say is that there’s no situation that triggers a cutscene moment that results in an unavoidable death, particularly one that you don’t know you triggered and don’t see coming. If that’s what you mean, then yes, I’ll agree that that is missing from this mission and would have made it feel more risky and that we could actually experience what it’s like to be suddenly and unexpectedly assassinated like we’d been doing for all the prior games.

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i replayed the mission and i noticed that if you start at the entrance you dont have the indentifying you have in the first playthrouge, you have all the targets marked and with the dot above their head, so what i meant is because you can see them both marked as targets and a dot over their head they will never be able to suprise you, what i meant is, if they werent marked at all and the only thing you had is the earpiece then it would not be that 1 sided where you are the only one hunting them rather then being hunted as well, so what i’m saying, in order to make this mission amazing, lets say they werent narked at all and if you went to an empty room they could kill you from behind in various methods,you had to be cautious and not rely on instinct and your map, now you can say that you can dusable all the hud and instinct, but what i meant that it would be like that on default

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They can still get you even with the markers and knowing who they are. It’s called not paying attention or being a clumsy player.

That part aside, I see what you’re saying, and could get on board with that.

the ica agents in berlin are a joke, they posses zero threat

compare them to ica agents in waikiki inn that kill you in less than a second upon detecting on expert/purist difficulty if you are not in cover