Unnecessary kills should be always highly discouraged

While the removal of SA as the core element in Freelancer may be good for gameplay reasons, I have seen some video where to reach the objectives players would not hesitate to kill for a disguise or kill all the suspects until the real leader was found. I think that promoting this style of play is bad for the franchise.

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kill all the suspects until the real leader was found? wdym?

Instead of identifying the leader in the showdown, you can shoot the suspects.

Shooting the suspects isn’t necessarily a bad thing though, is it? I believe they count towards your total syndicate member kill count.

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Yes they are still bad guys but 47 “defines the art”. And guards are just doing their job.

I agree, that this playstyle is very different from what we‘re used to. However, IOI seem to be encouraging it. If I remember correctly, there was a challenge where you need to eliminate all suspects in a showdown. Also you have objectives like „Kill 3 guards with an SMG“.

In the end, even if there is no direct gameplay consequence/punishment for unnecessary kills, it‘s always the player‘s choice how they want to play. You can still choose to go for SA, even if it is not required.

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I think SA can still be relevant if there is a small constant reward for achieving SA that would exist outside of the whole optional objectives with payouts system.

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on one level, i totally agree that the SA has lost its importance … but i also agree with @jan342 about the objectives of killing 3 guards … or collateral kills as a prestige condition …

when playing regularly, you can kill anyone in any way, but if you die, you can just restart without consequence … Freelancer is not as forgiving … you lose shit when you die, so you just can’t go crazy

however, there certainly seems to be some areas for improvement to Freelancer … i didn’t get to play the closed technical test because i don’t have the platform required for it … but i didn’t see any leaderboards which would definitely eliminate helter skelter runs from rising to the top … and picking he prestige missions can be contrary to the non-prestige missions (i.e. SA + collateral kills)

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If it’s an objective, no problem. But it should be specific: it’s not 47 job to decide who the targets are.

My point was not SA, but that removing SA which includes no collateral damage you incentivize mindless killing, which could also mean bad rep for the franchise.

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So now the collateral damage to a not target means prestige? That is ridiculous.

There was someone that posted a video… Almost as if it were a brag. (paraphrasing) “I go into a level w/ a non-silenced pistol, shoot the guards and make sure I’m spotted/compromised until I kill the target/s.” And saying that the rounds before the showdowns were just “filler”.

Okay. Way to really cheapen the experience/game mode.

Then, for example, in a video of a showdown in Paris where they dropped an explosive and killed all the suspects, then left.

I used to play a game called Party Hard, like a LOT! One strat for particular stages is to guard the way NPCs will go… Like a bottleneck such as a doorway. It might be leading to a cop that’s on-site or a phone in which they might call the cops. So any alerted NPCs will run right towards or by you - allowing you to stab them one-by-one.

So let’s say there is an exit on a showdown. One could do as you do in Berlin when the agents are escaping. Wait by the exit and mow them down as they come right towards you.

So what’s to stop a player to cause the main target to try to escape, then just wait to gun them down by the exit? :thinking:

Ha… I’m hoping I didn’t just inadvertently expose a loophole/strategy for taking out a syndicate leader. Although, it’s probably useless if there is more than one exit.

Anyway. There absolutely should be a penalty for killing non-targets… (looks at the optional objectives) or too many non-targets.

Perhaps they’ll just need to reimplement SA ranking if that’s all that’s keeping some players from ngaf.

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Everything that’s been discussed here goes back to the “it’s a single player game” argument though. There is nothing stopping any individual player from playing the game as a Silent Assassin. There is nothing stopping any individual player from simply killing everyone in the map either.

I personally think that there should A) always be a Silent Assassin prestige objective available, and B) the game shouldn’t do anything specific to prohibit or encourage non-target kills. Let the player play the game however they want.

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The key word there is can, you can play it properly and track down the tight suspect, or you can speedrun it, what’s so bad about that?

Again, that’s not about SA, it’s about unnecessary kills. I am totally fine with 47 having to kill a non target when there is a reason, like a witness which could alert the guard, it fits 47 character. I just don’t want the franchise to be as something which devalue so much human life.

If you are referring to the video above, the bad is the devs made a lot of effort on the mechanics of suspects but ultimately killing the suspects may be a better strategy if you care only about the rewards. Perhaps my opinion is a bit unpopular because I care about 47 character and his style.

I do too, and many others on this forum, some taking it a bit too far (im looking at your @Heisenberg! :joy:), but you can still play like a real assassin, you don’t need to kill all the suspects if you, the assassin don’t want to, i prefer it like this as if you want to go on a rampage, you can!

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devaluing a human life? it’s HITMAN… the fundamental crux of the game is killing people… regardless of how much you try to rationalize the moral justification for killing the targets, issuing a bill of attainder on anyone devalues their life…

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I just don’t want the franchise to trivialize killing people.

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FTFY

A vast majority of people have enough cognitive function to be able to discern fantasy from reality. And nobody is being inspired to go on killing sprees after playing or watching whatever violent game or movie.

The last time I played - somehow I got a non-target kill of a guard. I’m not going to cry over the “loss” of a digital representation of a robot. I can restart the mission and voila - they’ve resurrected.

And here I thought this topic was brought on by people being lazy at Freelancer.

Now that I think about it - if people want to shoot and leave, consequence-free - I say let them do it. They likely lack the attention span and patience to play it the proper way anyway. So then they can become bored, stop playing, and likely fade away from the community to play the next shooter they wished Hitman was. And I don’t see that as a bad thing.

Toodles, poodles.

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I agree.

Same.

As long as they are not getting the best score.