A joke needs a punchline, so no I can’t say I saw a joke in there rather then a question regarding mathematics 
that’s not true though 
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It’s rather hard to get a joke across in writing form, without the right circumstances. Making it easier to miss read. However if you look at a joke in it’s classic definition, then there is a setup and a twist (punchline)
But now we are arguing semantics
WoA soundtrack ain’t bad, but it would fit the upcoming 007 game much more than it does hitman games.
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Just yesterday IOI released a developer insights video detailing narrative story at large. I was quite surprised to learn that they said the story wasn’t as memorable as people anticipated.
At 0:34
This sorta aided my poll I did on the same day on if people played Hitman for the story or gameplay. And remarkably 18% of voters choose story.
It’s been constantly recited by the community that Hitman is a puzzle game mixed with action. Undoubtedly this would be the perfect recipe for a gameplay-based game. However the current trend with Hitman however is, there is already enough lore to compensate people caring about the story. I think this has created a tension for what people want in the game or haven’t given much thought or care on the opposing choice - this is also why I went with a single-choice poll for this round. The tension is also supported by that I received a few comments that the poll should’ve had a “both” option, showing that some people truly want the best of both choices.
I can safely declare that by this analysis, the story of Hitman, even aided by IOI that the story isn’t remarkable, is an unpopular opinion.
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Colorado’s main mission is better than every mission in Sapienza.
The main mission in Marrakesh is my favourite mission in 2016.
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not sure if this is an unpopular opinion, but i can’t think of a single duff mission in the entirety of hitman 1 or 2.
maybe it’s recency bias, but i wouldn’t put any of them in the series’ bottom-tier.
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I don’t think this is entirely fair. The gameplay is the core of the game. Bad gameplay = game is dead. That’s why most of the people chose to vote for “Gameplay” option, not because they think the story is irrelevant.
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the new games are rather forgiving with the unlimited saves and such, therefore nothing can be as frustrating as it can be in the classics. another reason is that even if the main mission itself isn’t your cup of tea, normally there are contracts and escalations. still, i’d say hawkes bay is rather mediocre and so are bangkok and colombia to a lesser extent
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I somewhat agree that gameplay is a good counterpoint to what makes Hitman great. I only voted for story because I come to that first when I first play the game, then the gameplay comes after it. If the story didn’t exist then it would probably be excusable to play it just for gameplay. So there was probably a shift of focus from that if the older games’ story wasn’t counterintuitive to gameplay.
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nothing to do with frustration with older games. i am a very patient man (ask me about playing the whole of monkey island 2 on the amiga with one disk drive sometime 
).
i’m strictly talking about the level design of the main missions.
i wouldn’t describe hawkes bay as mediocre. it is a great tutorial in the vein of the ica facility missions that doubles as a fun space to go ‘leon/the professional’ on fools.
the appeal leans more towards the hitman ‘fantasy’ as opposed to the series’ trademark complexity, admittedly, but as a microcosm of the latter - a sandbox in which to experiment with an array of weapons and methods - i enjoy it a lot.
the mood is 
.
i did a silent assassin/suit only run on bangkok last night, going for the excellent intervention mission story (one of my favourite executions in the series. very dr. no). taken purely as a space, it’s a wonderful example of verticality in the series, taking lessons learned from paris and putting them into an overall tighter space.
what elevates it for me is how a lot of the executions require - to my mind - more intricate manipulation of the ai than a lot of other levels, which ends up revealing more interesting aspects to each of the players involved. jordan cross is equal parts murderous bellend and tragically sad.
what’s not to like about colombia…? it’s a great amalgamation of spaces woven together really well and it has absolutely tons of replayability.
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hidden valley and death on the mississippi say “hi”. even though the latter is nowhere near as bad. to be fair, levels are simply bigger now, therefore there is a bigger chance that you’ll like at least some part of it and mechanics are tighter overall, so it’s just more pleasant to play
yeah, a nice tutorial level in the middle of the game is exactly what everyone needs. and it’s not even a good one at that, actually.
it has a single disguise, limited target routine and a rather boring space to navigate. the mood is alright but that’s nowhere near enough: ask absolution
it’s a bad example of verticality because it’s too limiting - there is just one suit only way up to cross. and you always have to go down to get to the other half of the hotel as well. in general, the hotel feels lacking in public areas and the fact that it’s symmetrical doesn’t help the variety at all. also, the removal of the security room in the basement was a terrible mistake. the one we have now is nearly impossible to inflitrate especially suit only and that forces a certain gameplay style of shooting/avoiding the cameras. at least we see the grids now
cross is indeed one of the best targets of the trilogy in terms of backstory and opportunities. ken morgan, on the other hand, is… a brick. both in his personality and in his route that are practically nonexistent. also, almost all the mission stories are impossible suit only and require a lot of waiting but it’s not as important as the rest of what i described
it has lots of empty spaces and boring running. the targets are separated and you can’t make them meet anyhow. opportunities lack fallbacks (you can’t give the glue to a hippie, for example, you have to ko him and do the thing yourself). also feels like a bit of a repeat of sapienza but with barely any interesting verticality. minor nitpicks: it has an ugly grey filter in the rico’s mansion area and there is a place there where people are chilling while listening to the fashion show music from paris that doesn’t fit at all
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i’m not saying there weren’t frustrations, i’m saying that doesn’t factor into why i consider all the missions in hitman 1 and 2 good.
it’s not in the middle of the game for those just joining. it’s like a bond cold-open of a mission.
again, it’s a microcosm; a simple sandbox area that gives you a selection of weapons, mechanics and items to play with. like i said, it’s fun for flexing and getting a taster. the mood simply elevates it.
(absolution’s mood was mostly gross, imo.)
i’ll have to defer to your better map knowledge on the suit only routes up, but the level’s primary obstacle/puzzle is ascending to the target (or, indeed, getting him to come down). the suit only route may well be limited, but that doesn’t mean the totality of routes is.
morgan has more routes than you are giving him credit for. the primary puzzle there is getting the brick to break his very public routine, which is again going back to understanding the motivations and the relationships between the four key players: jordan, morgan, thomas and dexy. sure, you can poison the food, but to dispose of him more discretely (and if you don’t have poison available) is where he provides a(n optional) challenge.
most mission stories are not going to be possible by playing purely suit only. i’m pretty sure you could level that criticism at most missions/routes in the series, let alone the woa games. disguises are often key to manipulating ai and suit only playthroughs have only been officially acknowledged in-game proper since, what, absolution? i could be wrong, but it was a community made challenge prior to that, wasn’t it, not something specifically designed for?
you can make at least two of them meet. regardless, do you have to be able make every target in a level meet for it to be considered a ‘good’ level? that would mean most hitman levels with multiple targets in the entire series weren’t ‘good’.
i dunno, other than the empty spaces comment - which is fair enough - these sound like very minor, very specific issues you have with it.
let’s be more positive for a mo mowlam: what are your favourite levels in the woa games so far?
yeah, i see. i just wanted to give some examples as well as make a further assumption on why you may feel that way
well, it loses its charm too quickly especially since other levels do a great job at giving you the same opportunities
as for absolution, i disagree. the library (or most chicago levels, for that matter), was pretty great in that department
it still amounts to a staircase and a pipe which is not enough, imo. paris, on the other hand, had many more options. some were obviously easier for the main mission but others were of good use in contracts and escalations as well. i don’t think one would argue with the fact that the more options there is the better.
if you have to resort to self-imposed challenges to have fun then that’s not very good design
it was not the best choice or words. what i meant was that you have to have one specific disguise to trigger them instead of having options. a good example is how you may ring the bell in sapienza in any disguise, not just as a chef. or instead of disguising as the detective you can just let him proceed to the meeting. same thing with the flamingo mission story in miami. i do apply this criticism to the woa games a lot because the standard for great opportunities has been set all the way back in paris/sapienza days
i don’t think you can. for such a huge level with 3 targets when they are all on different sides of it the answer is “yes, absolutely”. and the opportunities have the same issues, as i’ve already mentioned
definitely paris as the best example of swiss cheese design and for just having a ton of side content. but the area to the left of the mansion feels underutilized for some reason.
sapienza, obviously, because it’s a classic hitman setting done in a new and exciting way with great verticality as well.
then hokkaido: it has a lovely setting with unique disguise mechanics and a restricted loadout for a very nice change of pace. despite having one stationary target, it has a great variety in killing approaches. also, some nice easter eggs.
in h2 i wasn’t really a fan of many levels that much. miami is great but it needs another way to get to the other side of the track and preferably a few more exits. i also find a bit too colorful for its own good.
mumbai is very cool but i’m not a fan of the trainyard area and the slums aren’t my cup of tea either. however, the kashmirian mission story is probably the best one there is
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C47 has the best main menu track in the series.
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which other levels are simple and tight spaces that give you an array of weapon types and items in the same way? i’m drawing a blank.
in any case, it is a space that i very much enjoy messing around in.
the overall art direction in the game is fab, no doubt, but the game manages to feel both exploitative and conservative at the same time. it’s horrible.
i would.
i’d say things need to be balanced based on the challenge you want to provide players.
paris is a far larger real estate than bangkok, so it would naturally have more routes. the top floor puzzles are different too; the former is a special invitation only party, the other is a private recording session. different beasts that provide different challenges, imo.
they’re literally challenges the game provides.
ah, i get ya. that’s fair. still, i’m of the mind that the majority of mission stories require specific disguises and i don’t think that undermines their quality, at least not to me. i see those examples as more like a bonus on top
you absolutely can. you get two of them to meet for the ‘exit, stage left’ challenge, where you drop the statue on rico and andrea.
that’s a good write up. kashmirian is brilliant.
not a fan of colorado or another life, i take it?
I,as a huge fan of Miami,don’t understand why.There are already 5 ways to get from one side to the other:the tunnel with the street musician,the parking lot,the podium tunnel,overpass no.1,overpass no.2.
Again why?There is one in each of the four corners of the map+the helicopter exit.Isn’t that enough?Where else should there be an exit?
Well,that’s a shame…I think H2 locations are overall better than H2016 locations.I agree with the rest of the post though.
Not really.I think the best use of verticality is in Sgail.A lot of different floors which get smaller and more difficult to access the higher the floor is.I also like how each disuise is tied to a specific class in the Ark Society and how the higher a class is,the higher the access is,without breaking the game’s balance.There are also a lot of different staircases and pipes to use to get a specific floor and even some ways which are a bit more hidden.
From the old forum:
1.Jorge Franco is such an annoying target…
2.Too many cinematic kills imo
3. I understand it is supposed to feel like a hostile map,but it feels like there are not enough civillians(which is bad for other game modes and it makes this level not that interesting-also,a lot of the civillians stay in really small spaces).I also do not like that there are not enough NPC models(there was a topic about this on the old forum).
4.The layout of the map is really confusing.A true mess.
5.It is such a large map,but there are no good sniping options…A pity.
6.Not enough variation in accidents imo.That is not very important in the main mission,but in contracts mode it is.
There are probably more things to say,but this is enough.
It is really good as a main mission,but very bad in contracts mode.
Even though I am not a fan of a A new life(BM),I am a fan of Another life because its layout feels more different from the other maps.
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you can make more than 2 routes and still make them challenging. like in most of the levels. the fact that they’re different environments doesn’t change much in terms of how fun it is supposed to be to infiltrate them. it depends on the layout itself much more
any of the bonus missions, pretty much. there are always some hidden swords, axes etc. and you have most of these as unlockables in one way or the other, so you can take them anywhere
but challenges aren’t the point of the game. the point of the game is to have fun. and his route is not very fun because it’s limited yet too easy
i forgot about that one. it was the first thing i ever did, actually, as far as i remember . still, this one requires too much waiting and running around and dropping the statue itself isn’t worth it because you’re easily spotted and the timing’s rather tight. morocco, colorado and mumbai have better examples of what i mean
colorado is overhated. and it’s a shame that square pushed them to finish it sooner because there were many more things planned for that one. lots of missed opportunities there like proper combine kills, armed targets and so on. also, a little bit too flat yet claustrophobic. i do enjoy it anyway. it’s probably even better than the marrakesh main mission, especially without the obligatory exit in h2.
another life is alright but is also a result of not enough resources in ioi’s possession. i enjoyed the opportunities there and the clues don’t bother me that much. sa/so is also relatively simple but feels well balanced even on master. but the whole layout is not very interesting with the houses being identical and area lacking almost any verticality. it’s more enjoyable even than the bank though
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parking lot or near the entrance to the expo building
the first two are too far apart
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I have never thought about an exit there.It would actually be a good idea.
There is a dolphin exit though.
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