Weapon performance rebalancing

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I already referenced this in a thread in the H3 section. But I’d like to see some weapon performance rebalacing. Namely, I’d like to see the assault rifles and SMGs get a stopping power/lethality buff. As I mentioned in that other thread, like Mr. Freeze 2424 said in his weapons review series on YouTube, there’s little reason not to use a .45 M1911-type pistol over an assault rifle.

I’d like to see maybe the assault rifles get buffed to near or at the scout snipers in terms of stopping power, SMGs to pistol levels. And make assault rifles and SMGs a bit less bullet-hosey, namely reduce the rate of fire on the assault rifles to a degree and make trigger action more sensitive. Even the normal SMGs are easy to control as far as firing 2 or even 1 round bursts.

I know that I’m asking for maybe more realism and I’m arguing with video game logic here. And realism isn’t the highest accolade of the Hitman series (often for the better, IMO, as it can make the game quirky and fun), but oddly, the earlier Hitman games sometimes had better weapon balancing between categories.

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100% agree with how off the weapons are. You correctly pointed out though that realism isn’t always what hitman games are “shooting” for. I use the other weapons bc they are fun. Not for any tactical advantage.

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Fun is one thing, and I definitely don’t need the guns in Hitman to be super realistic, but the amount of (non-head) shots it takes from the SMGs to put down even civilian NPCs is just plain out ridiculous.

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Mrfreeze is also an awful person you shouldnt watch

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I do agree that SMGs are fairly useless unless you’re at fairly close range, especally the DAK/MAC-10 type one. I know that’s it’s based more on the MAC-11 version (.380 ACP instead of 9mm Luger or .45 ACP), but still seems pretty lethargic in terms of power.

Also, look at the M1 Carbine of World War II era fame. It was (what now is called) a PDW (personal defense weapon) that was supposed to be easier to use and more powerful at range than a Colt M1911. And it generally succeeded at that and was sort of a precursor to the modern 5.56mm/7.62x39mm caliber assault rifles and compact versions that are PDWs.

Oddly, I’ve found the assault rifles generally harder to use than most of the ICA19 (Colt M1911/AMT Hardballer) type pistols as far as accuracy and such. So that’s a bit of odd balancing. Though, maybe one can use their imagination and pretend that their pistol or machine pistol is a carbine/PDW-type rifle or even a full sized one. It’s a video game, after all, so you’re allowed to use you imagination.

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Having thought about it and played the game a bit more, I don’t think it’s so much a power balancing issue as it’s an issue with the performance drop-off at range. I understand that it’s a fact that firearms’ projectiles lose power at range, but not nearly as much as in these games.

I’d like to see a patch where either this facet of the game is deleted or distance before power drop is increased.

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I wonder if there’s something out there already that may address this, or could someone work on like a mod or something of that nature?

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Yes, all the weapons need a major rework IMO. “Use whatever you want to use for fun” argument is bullshit, if there are tons of weapons without any practical, at least very situational reason to use - it’s an awful game balance that needs to be fixed, even though the problem is not so noticeable as long as you use only good weapons.

Shotguns, ARs and SMGs you can’t find on a level should be OP to reward player’s efforts of bringing and carrying them. Of course, they gonna be barely used anyways, since non-target kills are punished in this game, but when you eventually go for mass shooting - bringing a better weapon should make sense.

I didn’t test weapons before writing this, but let’s say ARs that you can’t take from guards must have a super accurate first shot, almost no range drop-off and enough damage to kill in 1 or 2 bullets to the body. TAC-SMG (the large one) should be a perfect spray gun with no kick, but otherwise have a range and damage of a pistol. As for shotguns, you shouldn’t have to hit with an every single pellet point blank to kill someone. It must consistently oneshot on close ranges even when the shot is not perfect, and on mid ranges be still effective and kill in 1-2 shots.

Pistols should be nerfed a little bit and adjusted in a way so each has its advantages, unlike now when there are like 3 good ones and others are dogshit. There should be ICA19 with higher accuracy than other pistols for sneaky headshots and chandelier chains, but a significant recoil to make misses less forgiving; HWK Covert - less first shot accurate, but very spam-friendly gun with no kick and DTI - some kind of middle ground between ICA and HWK.

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My issue is that the assault rifles should be a bit more powerful at range, and there should be less variation between different versions. IE, the Tac-4 and the AR552 and the M4 type weapons should have similar power and accuracy, given that they’re all 5.56mm rifles. The AK based rifles, if they’re 7.62x39mm should hit as hard, but be a bit less accurate at longer ranges because 7.62x39mm has more bullet drop than 5.56mm.

Also, what caliber are the scout snipers supposed to be? And the other sniper rifles? It seems that they’re all 7.62mm NATO/.308 Win (the SVD types are it seems 7.62x54mmR, which is similar in power). However, the scouts have less power, while in terms of ragdolls, everything else is maybe somewhat OP’d.

That all said, I did go back and play Hitman 1/Hitman 2016 the other day, and they did massively improve the stopping power of the basic SMGs. At typical combat distances, I found that I had to empty half to 2/3 of a mag to take down 2-3 enemies on H1, or more. That got cut in half in H3 from the same distance.

And for shotguns, well, as in most games I’ve played, they’re def. short ranged, but most of the shotguns are basically sawn-off in terms of barrel length.

IMO, though, the strangest thing, especially among rifles, is that newer ones are outperformed by older ones? I mean, in real life, unless the designer or engineers screw up, newer items should perform at least as well as what they’re replacing, if not better, right?

But then again, we’re sort of arguing video game logic and most of the proprietary ICA weapons are often listed as being master crafted or having other tailor-made enhancements, too. IE, think of the ICA 19 Baller pistols as being like Alucard’s Casull from Hellsing, but firing .45 ACP and being an otherwise conventional Colt M1911 target pistol instead of being a giant M1911 firing .454 Casull revolver rounds (infact, the Striker pistols may be a reference to the Casull pistol from Hellsing IMO. Your mileage may vary there).

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Shotguns in video games are completely unrealistic. Sometimes outside of 15 feet they are useless. I get it, the games have to have a pro and a con to choosing each weapon, but people who’s only knowledge of shotguns come from video games are being seriously misled.

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Sorry for being away, storms knocked out power for almost 3 days. But yes, shotguns aren’t long range weapons like rifles are, but you’d expect them to be accurate out to at least pistol shooting distances. Granted, as mentioned, most of the shotguns in H3 are basically sawn-offs, but even those you’d expect to hit someone across the room with some degree of accuracy and hitting power.

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00 Buck shot or slugs for a decent size barrel will still blow your shoulder off at 30 yards. Shotguns are brutal weapons.

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And that’s sort of a hang up–barrel length. It’s like how 5.56mm (be it M193 or SS109) are quite damaging, especially M193 on soft targets (though SS109 isn’t far behind), but that’s out of 16-20 inch barrels. Anything shorter than that, and especially SS109 has trouble at longer ranges, at least until various EPR rounds (such as the US M885A1 and the Belgian FN SS109 Permax and similar upgraded 5.56mm rounds optimized for short barreled rifles) came onto the scene.

Most riot shotguns and such tend to have 18-20 inch barrels for accuracy reasons. Not to mention in the US that 18" is basically the shortest shotgun a normal civvy can own without getting a NFA sin tax stamp (there’s some exceptions, but that’s the general rule, same applies for rifles with barrels shorter than 16" for the most part).

All of this being said, even a riot/defensive shotgun with Foster deer slugs will accurately hit a target out to 50+ yards away easily, probably out to beyond 100 yards in the right hands. Actual shot will be less and dependent on volume and choke pattern, but still generally longer than portrayed in games.

That was also my point on assault rifles, they’re usually (even SBRs) more accurate and lethal than portrayed in the game. I do get that accuracy and performance does drop with range, but it seems that the guys who engineered that into the World of Assassination trilogy overestimated that (or maybe did so on purpose given that most shooting happens at close range in all the Hitman games. Still, they over-did it). Good shooters are able to hit targets out to 300+ yards with the HK G36C (which reportedly partially formed the basis for the Sieger 552 rifle, though the real G36C is even shorter).

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