Does playing Bangkok suit-only feel like an unfair challenge?

Hitman 3 (2021)
1

Recently, I have gotten back into Hitman due to the release of Hitman 3. I’ll be honest, the game looks amazing and the new cover system is awesome. The new movement system is simply the best the series has seen and I am really stoked to play with it once I get my hands on the game.

However, I have been challenging myself to to do a lot of suit-only infiltrations in maps like Paris, Bangkok and Whittleton Creek. I used to be very liberal with disguises back in the H2 and 2016 days, but I decided to go out of my comfort zone and really push myself to only use disguises as a means to an end. This approach means I can only use them to set up kills. I cannot just use them because they are a convenient way to infiltrate. Also, I really enjoy sneaking around in the suit and I love the suit system as well. It’s practically win-win.

Whittleton Creek and Paris were pretty liberal with suit-only routes and methodologies, as there is a lot of cover and different routes you could take without being forced to use a disguise. The routes themselves were pretty fair and balanced to the point of feeling fun and engaging.

Bangkok, however, has been a nightmare. Other than the obvious (the middle bridge method), there are very few viable options. For example - There is the backyard where there is the tok-tok (that quirky vehicle Morgan wants to buy). I have tried every method in the Hitman textbook (I am very good and experienced due to 2016 and 2) and haven’t met any consistent success rates. Ether I get lucky and slip by, or I end up getting spotted. I noticed the way the guards and civilians are placed is so, “anti suit-only”. I couldn’t help but I feel I had to steal a disguise just so I can get by everyone. Even the security hut was a bad idea because the guard drinking the water never looks away and is looking directly at the window. The two female civilians are so random and can sometimes spot you quickly. Not to mention, the gardener is a big obstacle too. Then you have the three people blocking the door to the ground floor or the Cross building. What I am trying to say, is that levels like Bangkok are some of the most tunnel-vision levels in the game and it’s such a shame. You are forced to use disguises for no reason other than there is no way to sneak past the guards and civilians without getting spotted.

By the way, I am well aware of the exploits as well. The peekaboo and the bullet impact and panic states. The reason I don’t use them is because they feel cheap and not at all satisfying. I don’t enjoy taking advantage of the A.I. weakness, they are very few, and I really want to ‘beat’ the A.I. fair and square.

This has been my biggest concern going into Hitman 3, and I really want to play and buy the game, but I can not justify both actions if the previous two games have shown me where they can fall short. If this is me being a ‘bad player’, then by all means, I would love if someone could teach me what to do. Other than that, I hope I am doing something wrong and the level and game are not at fault.

2 Likes
2

There is always some sort of way to get anywhere in the suit without exploiting the AI.

SA/SO is meant to be the hardest way to play, so I don’t think it’s ever been too unfairly difficult to achieve at any point in the trilogy. tbh I found H3 to be extremely easy to do Suit Only - I banged them out in my second ever runs of each location.

6 Likes
3

I haven’t played the third game yet, but I noticed 3 is a lot friendlier to suit-only than the past two, especially the first one, from watching a lot of approaches on YouTube.

Perhaps suit-only is just a challenge and nothing else? Could it be a viable play-style, where it is how you get to the assassination part (where disguises can be very useful)?

1 Like
4

Bangkok, in my opinion, is the worst level between Hitman 1, 2, and 3. One of the reasons is due to the bad routes Cross and Morgan have, and how very limiting suit only can be to deal with either of them. The side of the hotel with the band in it has extremely limiting routes, since (I believe) there are only 2 routes to gain access to the top 2 floors of the building. Not to mention taking out the security tapes is very difficult due to where they are located, so you just have to make do avoiding and shooting cameras in the way.

I did SA/SO Master with Bangkok. Was hard, but there is a way to kill Morgan in the first minute that isn’t technically an exploit. Morgan will always eat from the middle plate of the 5 plates in the restraunt first. Start the level, run there immedietly, use a coin to distract the 2 cooks behind the buffet, poison middle plate, run out. Morgan will be dead of an accident kill.

As for how I dealt with Cross. Went into the basement, taking out several NPCs, my goal to aquire the all access key card from the washing machine room. Went through the hotel to the floor with 47’s suite, dodging cameras. Snuck across the glass rooftop, enter the floor and sneak my way into the room with a balcony, where the 2 NPCs talk about Morgan’s letter. Climb pipe to next floor, sneak my way into the bathroom, then try and lure Cross when he enters the soundbooth next to bathroom, taking out some NPCs. It’s very easy to fail though.

As for Hitman 3, I’d say SA/SO is the easiest it has ever been for three reasons:

  1. There are no challenges tied to Master difficulty anymore. Meaning you can get all SA/SO unlocks in the medium difficulty, using as many saves as you want.
  2. Even if you want to do it in Master difficulty, for some reason the Hitman 3 seems to have little changed in Master difficulty, compared to how many cameras, extra guards, and extra enforcers Hitman 1 and 2’s maps add in Master difficulty.
  3. I’d say the Hitman 3 maps have some pretty easy ways to achieve SA/SO once you learn them enough. Mendoza is the only map really that I don’t know of that has a fairly easy SA/SO on it, and that’s because it’s the one map I havn’t properly learnt yet.
6 Likes
5

I completely agree and relate to what you said. Yes, I do have many reasons to despise Bangkok. It’s the only level I don’t enjoy. It was so bad I uninstalled Hitman 2 out of disappointment, especially since I had so much fun with Miami, Mumbai and every level besides Bangkok.

I am a little shy when it comes to critiquing the levels, but the only one I genuinely feels worth the criticism is Bangkok. Even Isle of Sgail and Colorado were ‘decent’, especially compared to that damn hotel. I really don’t understand how IO justified the hotel design. It’s terrible and doesn’t give the player much freedom at all. You have to use disguises for infiltration and most of the routes are all the same. Suit-only in that hotel feels like a slap in the face to the player, which is sad because it’s always a fun and engaging approach (although a challenging one).

My favourite part about Hitman 2016-3 is the complete freedom of infiltration. The mechanics are so well made and the levels support the mechanics a lot. The only level that fails to do this is Bangkok, and I am not the only one who feels this way. I have played every level the two games have to offer and never felt so ‘cheated’ on Bangkok. Honestly, the hotel has so many empty spaces that could have worked wonders for suit-only. Instead, the design is so linear and disguise oriented it doesn’t feel like a IO level at all. It’s like a different developer made this level and tried to shoehorn the classic Hitman mechanics and design principles into an awful setting.

Sure, some of Bangkok’s features are unique. But, it gets the basics awfully wrong. It simply isn’t good enough for IO’s standards and should have changed dramatically before launch, if such a thing was even possible.

4 Likes
6

From what I understand, the way IOI designs levels, effectively they have different people in charge of designing levels, with some sort of title. There are users who know far more about this than I do, but it does sound like with each map it was effectively a different leader and maybe slightly different teams of designers working on them. Probably why you have Paris, a large building that you climb around a ton of the outside, and is surrounded by massive grounds on all 4 sides of the building. But then you have Bangkok, where you can barely climb on any of the outside walls, one side of the hotel is just inaccessible, and lacks the freedom Paris was built on.

@cake941 knows more about this than I do, but it does help explain why some levels can arguably be a little inconsistent and the quality be higher or lower.

5 Likes
7

I agree. Hitman 2 is a lot more consistent than 2016, to be honest. 3 seems to be the most consistent, however. My hope is IO may have changed some of the bad elements of Bangkok (although that is very difficult to do, even with the live-service infrastructure) in 3’s revision of the map. However, that level has left a sour taste in my mouth and I would likely never touch it again.

Not to speculate, but it seems like 3 was so good because of the smaller teams IO had and the more experienced their developers were. I wouldn’t be surprised if they took Bangkok, Colorado and Marrakesh as learning lessons when making 2 and 3. The fact that they haven’t managed to make the same mistakes as the first game is a good sign.

The only level I don’t enjoy that much in 2 was Sgail, although that level does have a lot of freedom and can be insanely fun at times. However, never have I felt like the game was forcing me to use disguises and I could easily get around suit only using multiple routes. It does remind me a lot of Paris, which is a good thing. It’s just not as good as Paris, if that make any sense.

But yeah, I can rest easy knowing I don’t have to play Bangkok or Marrakesh anymore, especially with 3 available. To be fair, 3’s levels and mechanics are godly, even compared to 2. I cannot wait to get my hands on the game once I get a new computer to play the games on. It’s the best way to send off an amazing trilogy and IO have genuinely learned from their errors in 2016 with Bangkok. Some may dislike Colorado and Marrakesh for valid reasons, although I still find them a lot better than the hotel.

5 Likes
8

This. Not too difficult for the normal/advanced HITMAN player.

If you want a challenge OP, try Sniper Elite 4 on Authentic Plus.

1 Like
9

Bangkok is the worst main map in the trilogy that isn’t designed as a tutorial or epilogue thing.

The suit only is hardest in this map and that’s even while taking into account one target is so needlessly easy.

Cross by himself is trickier to get to then the 4 targets in Colorado, it’s so strange. Bangkok also only has one security station, used to be two but they retired the easier to get to one years ago.

Point is Bangkok sucks. But it has a cool suit so it’s forgiven partially.

2 Likes
10

Good point, I actually never thought of this before.

It’s one of the few (I think) maps where a target is in a non-trespassing area.

I can think of other ones like Paris, Hokkaido (Yuki), Miami sort of, Whittleton Creek. Throw Mumbai in there for the Maelstrom. Haven Island as well.

11

Good points.

Morgan is a big weak-point in Bangkok. He is so easy, it feels quite cheap. You can easily kill him with the hotel worker disguise. I can’t remember the last target that you could kill with a low-level disguise.

Heck, you can just poison his food or drop a chandelier on him. He is filler for the level. Something to give the player a false sense of confidence and security for the hell to come.

As bad as the level is, I don’t think Morgan’s absence would have changed much of the mission or the level at all.

1 Like
12

My favorite way to deal with Morgan is the coconut surprise. He walks under a couple trees, so it’s also not that difficult.

As far as cross? From the right spot you used to be able to headshot him in the booth, door never is opened, and so his body isn’t found. Other than that, opportunity wise the manager’s safe is probably the easiest, lots of drain pipe climbing involved however

13

The best thing about Ken Morgan is he adds more lore to Don Yates who is actually good target.

12 Likes
14

I think the best thing about Ken Morgan is the challenge gives you an excuse to kill a guy with a fire axe and stuff him in a box.

1 Like
15

I didn’t even know the security room existed in Bangkok until they removed the camera tapes from the Security Hut. It had simply never occurred to me to swipe a keycard on those doors prior to that to see what was inside.

I remember getting extremely frustrated with Bangkok in H1’s Professional Mode. That was such a punishing and unforgiving exercise. Once I completed all those challenges, I literally never touched the mode in Bangkok again.

4 Likes
16

Back in February 2017 I got stuck on professional SOSA on Bangkok and was annoyed because I looked at guides that all pointed me towards the hut which didn’t exist anymore.

1 Like
17

That’s human nature, e.g., “Are my eyes decieving me?”
What’s actually “cheap” is the curiosity that every NPC has for anything that makes a sound. I’d argue that a person is more likely to investigate what they saw than what they heard.

1 Like
18

It’s hard to describe why Bangkok doesn’t work as a mission, but I think a major flaw is the relative lack of ledges and pipes to climb on the exterior of the building as compared to, say, Paris. You never feel like you’re uncovering “shortcuts” or a secret way to get around the level. Just something as simple as that makes the whole space feel more restrictive.

2 Likes
19

Pretty much. It’s very noticable for the top 2 floors. To get from the second floor (the floor that has the glass roof connecting the 2 buildings) to either third floor, your only options are a single staircase or a pipe outside the single balcony. To get from the third floor to the top floor, your only options are the 2 staircases parallel staircases, and that’s it. Makes suit only for Jordan Cross very difficult since ofcourse, his default route is just the top 2 floors of his side of the hotel.

2 Likes
20

Please IO, put the camera station back in pro difficulty and add some pipes to make this level actually good. Cross is a good enough target please just make your 5/10 level a 6/10.

6 Likes