Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
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One thing I feel about the term “unbalanced” is that Hitman WOA is pretty much finished. I mean if we had unbalanced things right at the start of the game, sure it would be, but a year and a half after launch, I can’t say I have any complaints regarding how the maps are played.
Ok, don’t really get that one, but I only have one of those qualities, as I am a bit on the hefty side right now.
Animal House
Maybe not the most relevant quote, and certainly not an actual dig at one’s physical characteristics — just a general axiom in response to perceived narrow-mindedness.
Psh, who came up with that? Assuming someone who accepts only one point of view as being fat, drunk and stupid seems itself to be narrow-minded. As it is, in my experience, those who tout being more open to different view points are generally just making excuses for themselves. But, that’s just my experience.
Voted no, mainly because it’s sad how people forget to have fun.
Electric phone is op, rude ruby is op, sniper got its wall piercing ammos from SniperAssasin, fartbox is lame. Now the molotovs too…
Anyway. Molotovs are fun, I should get 100 item mod, so I can watch npcs burn. Especially in Colorado.
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It takes skill to use properly. It’s AOE so you have to keep non-targets out of range. You can’t throw it too close or it’ll be an explosive device kill. It’s illegal to openly carry and throw. And of course, you have to do all of this within throwing range. So I think those aspects balance it really well.
My only real problem is the wallbang (probably too difficult to fix) and the dart glitch (almost certainly will get fixed).
Speedrun wise, I don’t think it’ll do anything radical. I’ve seen a pretty great time saver on Santa Fortuna where it gets launched by a bomb across the map to kill Jorge but given the randomness of his route, it’s not consistent enough for Trilogy runs. The wallbang enables an early double kill in Colorado so I expect someone will figure out a route there for SA (but not SASO) runs. There’s probably a couple other targets/categories it’ll be good for.
It is going to impact a lot of contracts just because it’s the first portable accidental fire kill in the game but that would be true no matter how difficult/easy to use it is.
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Sorry to derail the thread just for one comment, but what’s OP with the rude ruby? Do you mean the pistol, or all the “rude ruby/ruby rude” items?
I’ve never used it since it’s just a pink unsilenced pistol to me
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Its pointless to remove an item for being OP unless IO erases and resets the leadership boards and challenges completely.
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I don’t know why people are making such a big deal about the fact the Molotov wallbangs; I’d remind everyone that most all explosives in the game wallbang, for example even the propane can wallbang: MADE IN BANGKOK | HITMAN 3 - YouTube
I do feel like it’s a strawman argument to say that since this is a single-player game there should be no balance whatsoever. If that were the case we might as well not have a rating system in the game at all, just let the player do whatever. Every singleplayer game needs balancing, competition and speedrunning or not.
With that said, personally I do think it’s a little absurd to be able to create portable accidents anywhere, but this kind of item is as balanced as it could be given the premise, as others have explained. Loud and illegal item, not an accident if you throw it too close to target, nontarget kill risk, etc.
I do also agree that it’s hard for IOI to add a new item that is both interesting and not “overpowered”, I remember the snail (goldbrick proximity mine) had similar reaction.
As for leaderboards, there are some legitimate concerns you can say about them, but cheating and using patched out tricks are not among these issues, provided you use speedrun.com and not the in-game leaderboards which suck.
I’ve elaborated more on my personal opinion on leaderboards as a speedrunner here already: Why don't they fix the GLITCHES? - #111 by solderq35
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I mean, the molotov definitely wallbangs a lot more easily and arbitrarily than most other items in the game. Such a big deal was made out of the fact that the Serpent’s Bite could wallbang more stuff due to its offset explosion. The only explosive that can easily and consistently wallbang the virus stalactite is the tripwire. And the Jordan wallbang used to require precise aiming and execution. The fact that the molotov barely even wallbangs with its explosion (in fact the explosion radius is smaller than most explosives so it can’t even kill Soders via the window - thus you also risk explosion kill less when wallbanging), but the fire goes through literally everything that explosions don’t…
THAT is what makes this much more egregious. Not just because people can abuse that, but it’s going to be annoyance to even casual players when they try to get valid kills, but then get NTKs because another NPC just happened to be on the other side of a wall, or even on the floor below… the fire definitely goes through way more surfaces than explosions or even the snail has ever done.
While I think it’s hypocritical to say that this ruins competition in any way, considering the amount of glitches that are used in competition already that people were fine with, and the fact the game is indeed single-player and is not made for competition, and any competitions created around it can simply add rules to balance as necessary, I still think this is something that would be much better fixed, and thus making a big deal about it is justified.
I feel like it’s a ‘reductio ad absurdum’ to imply people are saying that there should be no balance whatsoever, or that saying that means we might as well remove the rating system. Hitman 3 is a sandbox game. Think of it like Garry’s Mod (complete with flying explosives), but with more of an actual goal, a more rigid structure and more realistic, goal-oriented gameplay. The balancing is that all of this stuff is optional. The game is designed around encouraging players to set their own challenges to face and find their own ways to approach things.
Challenge doesn’t need to be forced by the game, it can be opted for by the player. Fiber wire exists in the game for players to opt for more challenging kills rather than hucking a propane or molotov. As do a variety of melee items, including ones in-map that would take way longer to get than is practical other than to set yourself the challenge of getting it and getting to the targets with it. People already opt not to use darts, not KO NPCs, use disguises, or not to bring loadout at all, despite no leaderboards existing for 2 of those things, the game not recognising them as special other than the odd challenge, etc.
Ideally, the game could find a way to recognise runs as being done in more challenging ways. Adding a performance scoring for ‘Fire Barrel Kill’ separately would at least allow the distinction to be more easily made by the player without it feeling ‘arbitrary’. That’d just be decoration though, really. Fundamentally it’s still the same thing, and you can achieve the same with just a little imagination.
Which could already be done with propanes, and used to be doable with fire extinguishers, both of which don’t even have an added loadout cost. Really, outside of the better wallbanging of the molotov, the only benefit to not finding a propane instead is saving time. Propane is literally easier to get a clean kill with, as it currently stands. So that’s something that mostly affects competition/speedrunning, and that’s something that the game shouldn’t have to cater to, as the communities can simply self-regulate it (even if they refuse to a little too commonly).
For all I care, they could add a loadout item that you can use to instantly poison kill the targets as soon as you enter the level. Literally no one would feel satisfied using it, and so no one who actually enjoys playing the game would use it, other than maybe for a laugh or experimentation, or to make a run focused on only one target (wow, I’m starting to find arguably good uses for it already). It would only ruin in-game leaderboards as it would surely be banned by SRC (right… right?!). I’m sure maaaaany people would bitch about it ruining the game completely, making SA/SO challenges too easy, etc. But then what are those people arguing for when they can opt to not use it? Are they arguing that other people have to have as much difficulty as they want to have? That’d be like asking for casual difficulty to be removed, or saying everyone should be forced to play Master. The classic Dark Souls debate.
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we needed this kind of item to make things happen. I truly hope it stays as is.
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I’mma just say my opinion, idk if anyone said it already, if it is in the “Explosive Devices” section, I think it should be considered as an “Explosive Device”, simple as that, it’s an item, and there is no other Fire Item, so making it an “Explosive Device” instead of “Fire: Accident” is a better option
No! The Molotov Cocktail and Electrocution Phone are magnificent items that allow for ludicrous degrees of cheesing, which is its own unique and fun dimension of play; player freedom of choice in a sandbox game is good. If 47 wants to projectile torch targets (or teach targets the electric slide through a phone call), get the fuck out of his way and let him.
To the absolute contrary of the idea of the Molotov Cocktail being unbalanced, IOI should follow it up by re-adding the Electrocution Phone as an unlockable in the Freelancer release update. If you want to “balance” the phone for the sake of “mUh LEADeRBoaRdS”, make NPCs take a ludicrous amount of time to answer and fall victim to it. Take it a step further, if you must, and make it difficult to unlock (e.g., must complete X amount of Escalations/Featured Contracts, must complete X amount of ETs and/or ETAs, etc.).
Hitman is a singleplayer sandbox game series above all else. Any other aspect apart from that (namely leaderboards) affected by these kind of items is none of my concern. The Molotov Cocktail and Electrocution Phone don’t compromise the challenge of anything at all. No one is forced to use them. I do speedruns quite often and still do SASO runs, SASONT runs (“NT” = “No Traces” = zero signs of 47’s presence), fiber wire only runs, poison only runs, etc., for the challenge… because that is the freedom of choice this game thankfully affords us.
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That’s church, man. That’s church.
To ‘balance’ the electrocution phone, and make it actually fun, I always thought it should merely “zap” the target, causing them to drop it (and maybe make them panic a little in reaction to the shock?). If they happen to be standing in water, the phone will electrify the water on impact with the ground for a nice electrocution. If not, you can take back the phone and use it again. The zap will also trigger any gas leaks that happen to be nearby, making it effectively similar to a propane + the big one combination, or light fires if it lands in oil.
This would have a lot of practical and unique uses in runs and advanced play. The current phones we have are great items, but letting an NPC find them and answer them often results in unwanted effects (flash phone = target lockdown, explosive phone = probably body found, or maybe that’s just not the kill you wanted). With a ‘zap’ phone, it can essentially do nothing yet still be useful in manipulating the target. Being able to ring them and temporarily make them stand still (for a snipe maybe), without having to worry about an explosion happening very shortly after, could be really useful. For those times when you do want to actually kill with it, it allows more creative options since it could trigger a number of different accidents, and getting kills with it requires just a little more planning. More freedom, more creative options, more fun.
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Oh we’re back on the electric phone again 
IO should put the phone back in the game but whenever an NPC finds it they either bring it to the closest bin and dispose of it, or if they are close enough, they just chuck it into the water.
We’re always on the electric phone! Until IOI puts it back, it’s 24/7! The Molotov is an extension of the electric phone, it represents the electric phone, every thread on this forum is about the electric phone, the entire purpose of life is the electric phone!
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I just realized, that I used OP not OT as in over the top. So yeah, I meant thet quantity of ruby themed items.
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Ah thanks for clarifying