Sure, but that’s not set in stone. For some people, some things are easier than for others, and the same people might have a hard time doing other things in the same game.
That’s why difficulty levels exist, and that’s why I like the (somewhat) trend towards adjustable difficulty levels in games. It’s about the player being able to decide for themselves what kind of challenge they want and what they consider challenging in the first place. (I’m aware that there’s also a huge debate - not here, but in the gaming community in general - about easy mode and how casuals shouldn’t be allowed to enjoy hard games lol)
Aaaaanyway, this is one of the many topics where I’m perfectly fine with agreeing to disagree, because different people play games for different reasons, and that’s a good thing.
I enjoy doing speedruns. But what I dislike, is removing the challenge from the game. Free kills should not be in the game. Barrels don’t follow targets around so those are fine but when you have a throwable portable fire bomb that retains SA, it makes the challenge in hitman moot.
I’m definitely in @Diana47’s camp on this one, but you put your point really well and I think the only conclusion is an amicable but fundamental ‘agree to disagree’ acceptance like you say.
Don’t personally agree with your core argument, but I respect that you expressed it very eloquently and in a well-meaning non-confrontational manner.
It’s not a free kill though; you still have to get to the target and make sure you do it right. Just as the ICA electric phone required you to get to the targets in their restricted areas without getting caught, and make sure that it was the target and not another NPC who picked it up, and then get out after using it without getting caught, the Molotov still requires you to get to where you need to be to use it and get out without getting caught, and avoid it killing any other NPCs. That’s not free; that’s putting in effort to use an item that has a helpful perk to it.
Now I want that. Imagine Novikov on stage and BOOM
Human tendencies and how they wish to play the game. As I said, there is always a meta, we can’t go around removing or changing every next thing that people call a meta or cheese. It diminishes the fun of it for some (times) or the simple aspect of using the item in general. The speedrun community is a fraction of the total community - basing the unlocks on whether a player can kill the target “too fast” is bad game design for a game designed to have player freedom.
The point was - it’s the next meta. Times are relative to the items that exist in the game, electro phone is gone, next in line is EMP puddles. It still creates the “fastest” time in relation to the tools. Yes you have to take an extra step but it is the meta. Only now the whole playerbase can’t get to have fun with an item because it is deemed to “unbalanced” against AI.
Apply this logic to any game. Imagine straight up removing weapons in COD, or removing the Oppressor Bike in GTA. All because some people use it religiously. People will flock to the next most useful item. They don’t do that and that’s in actual PvP games.
Yet again I still don’t see the problem what other players choose to use in their single player game. And how does that impact your personal experience?
Against AI lmao It’s just a new optional meta. That’s all. It affects nobody but the player using it, it affects the time you complete the mission. So if you want a faster time, you may opt to use it - but then that’s like any other meta.
What matters is actually removing someone’s fun because the item is gone over claims an item is “OP” in a single player game versus AI. With the obvious option to not even use the item at all. But rather criticising the choices of other players and what they do in their own single player experiences lol
But couldn’t you say the same about propane canisters and the micro remote taser?
I’ve been playing around with those lately in the ETA, and while I have to isolate the target enough to not kill innocent NPCs with the explosion, it’s easy enough, and I don’t really see the difference between a portable explosion (especially since the items used for that are all legal to hold, throw and drop in any disguise) and a portable fire (that works with items you can’t legally hold, throw or drop in most disguises).
Again you’re missing the point. You’re talking about something different than me. You’re talking about getting to the target. I’m talking about already being there. It’s a free KILL. Kill. Not path/route. Kill. What part are you not getting, dude?
And as far as doing it right, that’s trial and error which is why restarts are in the game. But the actual kill itself is what I’m talking about.
You’re defending only 1 aspect of the game. I like to see ALL aspects. Getting to the target and killing the target. I see the game in its entirety to be a game about challenge. So it doesn’t really matter about what you’re talking about, even though I agree with you on that. It should still also be a challenge to get to the target. But that’s why the social stealth aspect is in the game, To help get to the target. But at the end of the day, it’s how you get the kill on the target which makes you the omega assassin. Getting free kills makes the challenge on the game irrelevant. That’s what I don’t like.
Tasers I’ve always said they should be accident KOs. Not kills.
As for propane, I don’t mind NOW cuz those aren’t around so often compared to how this kill option was so easy with fire extinguishers in hitman 2016. So that did get a pull back on how OP they were. And you don’t start with a propane tank in your loadout.
This. Never complain about there being more toys in the sandbox. And unlike electro-phone, this is actually a fun item to use with a lot of uniqueness and alternative ways it can be used.
I don’t really mind the dart glitch with it. It’s something really obscure that people would only do if they want to do it (all power to them). But the wallbangs seem as much a flaw with using it as it is a benefit… no one wants to accidentally kill someone through a wall/floor when they meant to just kill someone in the room. And when it is abused, it does feel a bit too egregious.
Now, the one and only justifiable reason to be against items like this and electrophone in my mind is contracts mode. I don’t feel contracts mode should hold the rest of the game back, because it’s a small, simple part of it which hasn’t even really been updated by IOI all that much, but obviously it makes it a bit easier to bypass the challenge of some contracts in terms of competition. Unless IOI are going to update contracts mode so it’s able to not allow certain items, this is just going to be a casualty of making the rest of the game more fun. Players can still choose not to use it or compete in doing the contract without the item.
People mention speed runs for some reason - as if speed running is a reason to hold a game back, but it’s up to speed runners and the rules set in the community whether they actually get used. They get to dictate how fun it is. Speed runners will almost always be for using it though because they want speed and speed alone. If you think watching speed runs using the molotovs is uninteresting due to ‘lack of challenge’, then you’d probably be better off watching challenge runs where the challenge is the point.
But at what point are you at the targets upon entry? You still have to get there - which can be a challenge in itself. Traversing through various checkpoints, trespass/hostile zones to even be able to get this “free” kill. It’s not like I could throw molotov across map from the exit point, hit the target and leave.
While I haven’t used the molotov yet, so I don’t know it’s AI mechanics. I assume you’re talking about being able to molotov targets in open areas? Can you straight molly them?
Even so, sure it’s easy and confusing if the AI don’t turn hostile, people can do it if they want. I’ll use a case and emetic gas for a Joker style kill.
From a medical perspective, tasers being a kill and not a KO makes sense when you use it to shock during the heart’s vulnerable phase, but I meant the combo of propane and taser, to trigger the explosion from the comfort of our own home a safe distance.
It’s true though that we can’t start with a propane canister in our inventory… but there still are a lot of them around on most maps, and more often than not they’re quite conveniently placed where you would want to use them (at least for “standard” targets, not so much for contract mode targets).
It’s illegal to hold in a non-guard disguise, its illegal to throw, and you cant throw it too close or its an explosive kill, and its easy to get ntks.
I haven’t used this yet but this sounds like a reskin of the guru emetic bomb and the other emetic bomb. Or does it have some unique thing to it that makes it different to those 2 I mentioned?
