Unpopular opinions about Hitman

[Swangtheugly]

Bleaker ending and some other stuff. S-Mart is the theatrical ending.

[Screaming_Meat]

oh. i saw the three drops ending when it came out on vhs. i preferred it once i did see s-mart.

[Lord_szechenyi]

sorry, wasn’t able to answer for a week due to mods.

@Screaming_Meat

you can vault over any low walls? that’s genuinely news to me!

cover is for staying out of sight and still being able to see what’s ahead.

if you needed to look down a corridor without being seen in bm, you would walk up to the wall and angle the camera. maybe crouch. it looked dopey compared to using the cover system in woa or absolution, which also allows you to switch cover smoothly and shoot enemies/throw items while remaining hidden.

so, no, you don’t have to do that in woa. i think it’s an excellent addition in terms of both gameplay and ‘immersion’.

As far as i know you can vault over any low walls yes, there isn’t a prompt however and you need to face the direction of the wall/window.

It’s true that Blood Money didn’t have leaning like in the previous games, but Blood Money is really not a game designed around taking cover (unless hiding in cupboards).

@Screaming_Meat

you have to be shitting me. it’s basically a large room with a target in the middle

as you may be able to tell, i really hated end of the road. it’s one of the many levels of absolution that felt like nothing. i played it thinking “why am i even doing this?”

I never said End of the Road is a good level, merely that it has good level design.

I suspect it was a test room (ragdoll testing and weapon testing) and they kept in the game.

@Screaming_Meat

for me, a good hitman level is basically promenade theatre. it’s a sandbox space that ‘feels’ real and has a clockwork diorama going on within it. the game then let’s the player prod at the world and become a spanner in the works in any number of ways, often by using the environment or items to manipulate npc behaviour in a beneficial way.

And that’s the main problem, Hitman became a game where you hide between crowds/events, instead of infiltrating places.
(Besides Blood Money where AI can be too easy) in the Eidos games you never manipulated NPCs, you had to hide from them, avoid interacting with them (think Hitman 2 SA where running is a crime).

@Screaming_Meat

it needs to have myriad different ways to complete the hit. the environment needs to work seamlessly with mission design and be robust and open enough to accommodate the player’s imagination, not just the developer’s. it needs an array of spatial puzzles. it needs chokepoints that require the player to traverse an interesting, hazardous space, though they also need multiple solutions to overcome.

there’s loads more to it, but i’m too lazy write them all

mumbai, basically.

Funny how mumbai does not comply with the description you gave.

@Screaming_Meat

it certainly is when you’re a relatively small studio that is on a budget and is releasing a live service game based on a property which has almost always been designed around replaying the same levels in different ways.

Bullshit, then don’t make bonus levels, unless it’s something like The Bank or The Island.
And just because they’re a small studio doesn’t excuse them, they used to put more work into their games before.

@Screaming_Meat

the maps were designed with multiple uses in mind. regardless of whether you ignore that fact or not, it is literally a principle part of their design.

Like i said, as a multi purpose map, it’s great.
But (as an example) if i had to take Paris and compare it to Traditions of the Trade, both have unused rooms, however the hotel rooms are small, supposed to look the same, and never get in the way (except once when you need to kill one of the targets in his room).
The rooms in Showstopper are HUGE, need to go there frequently, and are usually empty (but the thing is that’s not very realistic), i remember so many times when im at the rear entrance, need to go up 2 sets of stairs, and a few rooms to finally get to the place i want.
It’s way too slow.

[Lord_szechenyi]

@TheContractor

You’re in the wrong thread, please take this over to hitmanforum.com/t/you’re-absolutely-goddamn-right

@Franz

It’s funny to see how many people are actually clicking that link. We all know that topic doesn’t exist yet we can’t resist to make sure.

Yes, I clicked it too.

And it will never exist, because this threads can’t include the ’ character in the url.

[HungaryHippoe]

One that I have is I genuinely love almost all of the escalations, even the ones people aren’t a fan of. I think they offer some of most engaging gameplay in the trilogy.

[Screaming_Meat]

@Lord_szechenyi

As far as i know you can vault over any low walls yes, there isn’t a prompt however and you need to face the direction of the wall/window.

It’s true that Blood Money didn’t have leaning like in the previous games, but Blood Money is really not a game designed around taking cover (unless hiding in cupboards).

i’m sure it’s specific areas, but okay.

every hitman game has needed you to remain hidden and look around a corner to see what’s going on at one time or another. absolution mechanised that and i think it was a welcome change. i don’t know what else to tell you.

@Lord_szechenyi

I never said End of the Road is a good level, merely that it has good level design.

i know and i replied to that. it’s only ‘good’ level design based on your very broad criteria. it’s so broad that it means end of the road - something you consider a ‘test room’ and is basically a single room with a target in it - should be considered ‘good’ level design.

you might want to take another look at your criteria, if that’s the case.

@Lord_szechenyi

And that’s the main problem, Hitman became a game where you hide between crowds/events, instead of infiltrating places.
(Besides Blood Money where AI can be too easy) in the Eidos games you never manipulated NPCs, you had to hide from them, avoid interacting with them (think Hitman 2 SA where running is a crime).

that’s your problem. i don’t see that as a problem at all; i see that as precisely what makes the series great, and watching it develop over the last twenty odd years has been a joy.

hitman pioneered (or popularised) social stealth. it’s what set it apart from other stealth titles. as the technology got better and the developers got more ambitious, they were able to iterate on what made the series unique and the social stealth became more complex and more interactive. the very earliest hitman game had you interact - albeit very basically - with characters in disguise (c:47). as the series went on, these interactions became more complex, as did the ai routines, and we were given opportunities to manipulate npcs more directly (at least as early as contracts, it not h2:sa).

that’s what games do; they iterate on mechanics. they don’t come out fully formed.

@Lord_szechenyi

Funny how mumbai does not comply with the description you gave.

i think it does. it was the level i was thinking about as i wrote that.

would you like me to go through it point by point for you?

@Lord_szechenyi

Bullshit, then don’t make bonus levels, unless it’s something like The Bank or The Island.
And just because they’re a small studio doesn’t excuse them, they used to put more work into their games before.

by before, do you mean when they were bankrolled by deep pocketed publishers, when they could hire another development studio to help them out, or do you mean that time when they nearly went under and had to shed a shit ton of staff…?

@Lord_szechenyi

Like i said, as a multi purpose map, it’s great.

they achieved their design goals then.

[wincenworks]

General reminder, this thread is not for posting your regular opinions with the assumption that you can just be unpleasant.

There are topics for discussing particular things and they have already covered vast amounts of information.

Let’s not resume the conversation here with baby’s first opinion.

[William1066]

Is it weird that I prefer playing Marrakech over Mumbai? I know Mumbai is the better map in almost every way but I just like visiting Marrakech more.

[Rimland]

Nope. Maybe it´s a minority opinion, but not weird. I prefer Marrakesh (specifically A Gilded Cage) over Mumbai too, even though objectively I find Mumbai to be the better map (meaning level design) and mission. I just really like AGC for its atmosphere and mission background. And it doesn´t feel as “overwhelming” as Mumbai sometimes can. In fact, I think AGC is maybe even my most played mission in H1 (if not the whole trilogy), even if I don´t consider it the best of the bunch. Just really like going back to it (though I wish they´d improve/fix a few things about it that I think they still can).

[MissMorbid]

I am the same way. Mumbai is definitely in my top 5 favorite maps but I play Marrakesh more often. I think the reason is I feel so nostalgic when I play the 2016 maps.

I think this is an unpopular opinion. I prefer A Gilded Cage to A House Built on Sand.

[Leigh_Morgan]

Tottaly agree, I fond this with a few other older games to, even know they were great at time, now they’re terrible. Some are just timeless though.

[schatenjager]

Unpopular opinion: I really do not like the Mumbai map at all.

[Screaming_Meat]

that’s a shame. i think it’s magnificent.

[schatenjager]

Well I did say it would be unpopular. It’s just too crowded for my taste.

[Screaming_Meat]

of course. i wasn’t having a pop or anything

i think i read somewhere it was one of the least replayed maps?

[schatenjager]

All good! I don’t know why some other people don’t like it, but for me, it’s just the number of people. Marakkesh is a close second.

[Screaming_Meat]

ah, fair enough. crowds slow things down and the map is already huge to begin with.

it’s funny, because i love what they did with the crowds in that maze of back alleys between the main starting point and the hill; the area where you have to avoid the all-seeing guards. it’s like an extended take of the end of run for your life (i shit on absolution, but it does have some great bits).

i find the combination of two basic mechanics makes it immediately understandable and it seems to drive you to play through it like a classic spy thriller trope; looking like your checking out wares, ducking into door ways. etc.

[HungaryHippoe]

I think Hush is a great target. His area is one of the best fortresses in the trilogy. There are so many ways to infiltrate/navigate it and, unlike the bad fortresses like the Marrakesh school or the Haven Island Mansion, it meshes seamlessly with the map. As for Hush himself, he’s so insanely evil and he’s so ridiculous that I kinda love him. He has some great dialogue, especially with Royce. He has a good route, and plenty of good kills. I especially liked some of the electrocution kills you can set up.

[Lucas]

The only thing keeping Hush from being the most badass target in WOA is his pants.

[Norseman]

I need you to elaborate a bit on this.