i like that io cater to suit only playthroughs. the more ways there are to complete a level, the better. 
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No, that’s not what I meant either. I wasn’t referring to the challenge “suit only” I was referring to the classic challenge that requires you to get SPECIFICALLY both silent assassin and suit only in a single run.
My point is that if the game officially recognizes silent assassin suit only as a valid methodology of completing the level through challenges, then the game should mechanically endorse that to some extent. I can forgive a mission like Amendment XXV in Blood Money, or a mission like Bjarkov Bomb in Contracts not really having suit only methodologies because the game never recognizes even regular suit only play styles (much less with silent assassin) officially, sure there were certain levels (like traditions of the trade) that lean far more heavily into it, but it was never seen as part of the puzzle or as an official extra layer of challenge.
Now with the trilogy officially recognizing it, there should at least be some more conscious design for the concept. I’m not saying by any means to make the game easier, but perhaps there should be some ways to trigger most or at least some opportunities or set events in motion without a disguise to at least induce more interesting target routines.
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I think we agree there. I would love it if there was a way to trigger most of the mission stories/opportunities without 47 having to actually do them. There should be a way to get the hotel staff to bring the cake topper up to the cake. There should be a way to get the fired banker into the meeting. There should be a way to get Jeremiah Block to vote on the coal thing.
I really like that challenge in Whittleton Creek where you basically just give Janus his best day. 47 just pulling the trigger on all these various little scenes and letting them play out without being the central character himself is immensely gratifying. He should be able to use all of those as his tools rather than being required to play the parts himself.
Side note, I think I forgot about “Suit only” as a separate challenge because I always just did it as part of the “Silent Assassin, Suit Only” one.
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This is partly why Bangkok gets derided as being terrible (and still is, as of writing, it’s an absolute PITA to SA/SO it, to the point where I’m never doing it again), and why Colorado fixed so much to specifically to make this challenge easier. As you say, the game kinda needs to keep the challenge in mind.
Not to mention that Bangkok deserves mor hate from it because it only happens due to there being generally very few routes to get around the map (especially suit only and up to Jordon’s route).
Colorado at least is a military base, it makes sense for your suit not to be able to get you anywhere, and it does have a few different routes for access
Exactly; context matters. The grass keeps the context justified and makes it a fun puzzle.
Bangkok has a terrible route, tons of camera’s, bellhops, one security station (that requires a bloody keycard!), and guards out the wazoo. Ken is easy to kill, but Jordan is disproportianately hard.
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I dunno what everyone is whining for. Bangkok is no problem to do SASO, and I do that while adhering to the HPP, so that’s even more difficult for me. If anything, it’s gotten easier with all the various knockout tools H2 and H3 have given us. Bangkok has one of the most fulfilling SASO runs available.
Well it’s more about general route variance than specifically just silent assassin suit only. The only way up to Jordan’s area is either the stairs or the pipe in one of the two suites (one of which requires a keycard or scrambler) and they are both right next to each other. It makes for very tedious replaying of these maps, as you can never really shake it up, not to mention the exits aren’t great either, and the security room is quasi impossible to get into without both a keycard and a security disguise.
The best maps in my book have great variance in target routine, while also having different ways to change that routine outside of direct disguises for opportunities (disguises like Abel de Silva or the master of ceremony).
Sometimes I want to complete a mission without knocking people out at all or with doing incredibly realistic or untraceable accidents. Both of Bangkok’s targets don’t have a whole lot going on in their routes. Ken Morgan is a lot better about it though, with the letter to drop off and the tuk-tuck to fix to get him to move around a bit. However his base loop is INCREDIBLY basic and repetitive, meanwhile Jordons loop is too involved with other people
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Yeah, I think this is fair. SASO being difficult isn’t necessarily problematic on its own, but it CAN be symptomatic of a general lack of options or routes.
I think a more difficult but different way to complete mission stories in the suit, perhaps by an NPC proxy that noticed certain things and behaved accordingly would do a lot for replayability. The NPC themselves can even be a potential witness and make things a little harder.
Jordan Cross has the cake topper that can make him come down.
Only one floor though, and to a room that’s full of people. Not to mention you have to actually get the cake topper onto the cake, which usually requires a disguise to do.
I too think Club 27 is terribly designed for SASO. I always did the exact same, sneaked up, climbed the pipe, killed him in the muffled room or the bathroom nearby and Ken dies either by falling lamps or a propane.
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Getting the cake topper in your suit is a challenge but definitely doable!
And the cake room is full of people but it clears out at some point, leaving Jordan all by himself.
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Are you sure about that? The thing about all three of these is that they are scared or pissed or tired etc… they all got a reason not to do what they need to, fuck it, the fired banker is fired from his job, the whole bank knows it, he is pissed and sad as shit, he is confused as to why he is being fired, he knows and the rest of the bank knows how valueable he is, there was no reason to fire him, I’d spend my whole day, just like him stressted as much he is, hoping that bi… woman, would get a piece of my mind, he has no reason to go up there, I’d understand for some like Ted Mendez, his whole reason was “he was got me waiting for him, now I’m getting him waiting for me” he is wasting time and if after like 1:00:00 of playtime that meeting would occur it’d be nice, and let’s not forget the Haven Doctor, he got the opportunity of a lifetime, he came to a luxury island just to give some medical treatment to some dude, he is being paid for having a vacation, of course he is stalling some time, enjoying the amazing vacation he earned, after 15 mins of playtime, iirc, he goes for the meeting with Tyson cuz he needs to do his job.
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Sure they have a reason not to, but there are others that have an interest in getting them to those things. The security guard’s job is to get that banker to his meeting and out of the building. The hotel chef’s job is to get that cake topper onto that cake. I get them not wanting to do those things but they don’t exactly have a choice (if they want to keep their jobs/not get arrested). The doctor is a perfect example. Eventually he realizes that it’s his job to go to that meeting.
My point is that, in the absence of 47 assuming the role of the banker/chef/doctor/coal magnate/etc., it would be illogical to assume that those NPCs would just be allowed to simply refuse for the rest of the day and assume no one would ever question it. 47 being those characters to use their situations as opportunities is great, but eventually, the people he takes over for would be expected to do those things themselves.
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This one I can get, having 47 in a legal disguise coming to the chef saying something like “Here is the cake topper, I heard you lost it”, but the banker has no reason to be made that way, having 47 dressed as a bodyguard, coming to the banker, saying “Athena sent me to escort you to her office”, which 47 could only do on his own, it doesn’t even make any sense for her considering her character, she doesn’t give a fuck about the banker, she is firing him over sweatshirts, if she would have made it through the day and the banker wouldn’t come by her office, she would have had probably sent him a text message or gave him a phone call, and setting up that whole thing considering that 47 has to wear a disguise to activate it is a waste of resources, these two are anyway there together, it would have been useful if he’d kill her himself, but I guess that IOI didn’t thought about it.
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I understand that there are (crafted) motivations for why the NPC’s do or don’t do certain things, but there should at the very least be a way to make NPCs move more dynamically or to set a lot of these opportunities in motion because it makes the maps FAR more interesting and gives players a lot more freedom.
Don’t get me wrong, some opportunities and kills should be limited to having certain disguises on. However it should at the very least be balanced or interesting so that Targets loops will at least be interesting to mess around with and setup cool things you couldn’t normally do with a more stagnant or one loop target.
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Of course they all do, and we could always go with the solutions of bringing the missing item or coming to the late NPC with the target’s bodyguard’s disguise telling the NPC to get to the target, but you know, it’s pointless, in most cases it wouldn’t cause anything other than one more convo, we would just watch the same conversation 47 had with the targets but with different NPC, whats the point with having Abel Da Silva getting to Cross and having that chat with him? It wouldn’t assist the kill at all, more than that, it would confuse new players that would accidently trigger it, losing the opportunity, unless there is a chance that the target kills the NPC (Landslide, Miami) or the NPC kills the target, it’s pretty much pointless to have, and yes, I’d like to see the fired banker kill Athena, “Ah, I finally gave that bi… woman, a piece of my mind”.
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I love A Gilded Cage despite its flaws.
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That’s my favorite mission in WoA. I love the political stakes, the ways you can kill the two targets, and the fact that the client is just a construction company who doesn’t want to lose out on the money they’re expecting from the deals they’ve already made with the current government. It’s classic Hitman pragmatism: the concern isn’t the public or even the politics, it’s personal gain, and all the high-stakes international intrigue is secondary. Reminds me of 47 and Diana’s cold and callous professionalism from the Meat King’s Party, where upon learning that the targets did not kill the client’s daughter, they were unconcerned with getting the actual killer because that wasn’t part of the contract, and they still went after the original targets. The client’s motivations in A Gilded Cage ring just as callous, and I love that the two targets are slated to die for those reasons and not for the myriad of crimes that they’re actually guilty of; that’s just a bonus.
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