I would say content is the problem if video games are a serious medium then Disco Elysium would have beaten Sekiro as game of the year. The truth is the dumb-crap-for-idiots to serious-and-intellectually-valid ratio in gaming is still wildly disproportional to an outsider.
I didn’t say video games are not art, they are art by most definitions. I am saying there is no way any serious academics or even normal people will ever treat the medium as seriously as some Gamers want them to.
To be fair, award shows are not a measure of art by any margin. And sekiro actually holds pretty high artistic weight the way it ties its narrative into its crushingly high difficulty and your perseverence to 100% it.
I dont have the vocab to eloquently articulate it but noah caldwells gervais take on the game is excellent.
True but the Game Awards are voted in by industry professionals so that is why I focused on that one specifically and since they still give out awards for artistic merits like story, audio design and visual style I think it is interesting to look at and factor into the discussion.
If only every Gamer was replaced with Noah, then games might actually have a well-developed academic foothold.
‘game of the year’ is not a measure of anything relevant here; it’s marketing guff.
video games are relatively young. films and comics went through the same thing, and i would argue every other medium has a similarly disproportionate ratio. sturgeon’s law and all that.
not sure what ‘gamers’ want (nor do i care) but games will be treated ‘seriously’ at some point, if they aren’t already? i dunno. again, it’s the content that matters.
See above but I don’t think it helps your case calling the awards we give out to the best of the medium as selected by industry workers and reporters as “marketing” since that would connote that games are indeed entertainment products that don’t satisfy any intellectual quality.
Not that it matters Jeff is going to murder the Game Awards sooner or later or it will be like the Eisner Awards where they tack it onto Gamescom and quietly announce all of their winners to a small group of journalists who will report on it.
True but it feels like it will never eventuate especially since comics are still looked down upon even though the types of things people think of when they think “comic book” are actually relatively new additions to the medium. Films and comics are the same in that capeshit has buried the most easily consumable ad outwards facing aspects of the medium in a shallow grave that it keeps coming back to piss on every year.
i wouldn’t use award shows to support my pretentious arguments about ‘art’ or whatever, regardless of the medium. i see them as back-patting marketing bullshit no matter who gives them out. creativity isn’t a competition. there is no ‘best’, as far as im concerned; there is only what we like and what we don’t like.
it’s been framed like this as a byproduct of late stage capi—- no. no no no. i’m not doing that again. 
can’t say i disagree, but like i said (in way fewer and shorter words): lowest denominator content has always had the largest real estate in every medium. i don’t think video games are an exception.
Can we though? Because consumer habits, bad corporate practices and commodification play such large rolls in all of this even larger than the Gamers.
I am not saying they factor into what is actually art nor am I saying art needs to be a competition. I was merely saying that the industry itself seems to also share the same cynical desire to make video games art not because they are art and they deserve to be seen as such but because the notion that video games are art expands the videogame market.
Besides I thought you didn’t have the energy to discuss things like “Are videogames art” because we are basically verging into that specific conversation right now.
no.
right, but i’m saying that’s not unique to video games.
i don’t. if it gets there, i’ll cry.
True but I feel like video games will never break free and it is sad because it isn’t like there is anything wrong with the medium, the problem is all of the people who engage in it.
Don’t worry, I am more than comfortable to say we both agree in some respects and disagree in others and leave it at that.
Considering this conversation, and other conversations like it lately, maybe there should be some kind of “serious politics and art debate” thread where serious and philisophical ideas like this can be debated at the users own leisure.
maybe. i imagine a lot of people had the same feelings about film, comics, books… etc.
anyway, have you played pathfinder?
Finally a nice and safe enclosure for Heisenberg to run around in!
The video games or the tabletop game? Because I want to play the video games but tabletop is to intensive for this stage in my life.
vidya games. i’m looking at kingmaker right now. i’ve literally spent three days looking at resources to try to put together a character. it’s a wonderful way to avoid staring into the abyss.
The pot calling the kettle black. I’m not a Regular so can’t really suggest the idea properly but it does seem like users like you and @Screaming_Meat could benefit from.
The fuck you did was being a smart and opinionated user on this forum who takes debate seriously.
Again, not my place since I’m not a Regular, but I do think the forum could use some kind of space. I feel like there needs to be some sort of evolution from the General News thread, since that thread isn’t really meant to be for debate or off topic conversation to begin with.
certainly is your place to say. 
I heard Kingmaker is good but that is the extent of my knowledge of the game other than what I know of Pathfinder in general which is some what substantive since I was looking into getting into table top for a bit.
He is definitely a blacker kettle than me, wordier as well.
Huh, I thought you were a regular.
The last time I took advantage of something made for my personal benefit it gave me full time employment in customer service.
