Freelancer - Pre-Release Discussion

[Switcher]

Free to Play

[Courier6]

I think it was more that the mode felt flawed in its execution and the lack of ability to interact with the other player. It more incentivized knocking out everyone remotely near the target loudly before killing them, instead of any kind of stealth mechanics. It was t really about stealth or combat, but rather “who can get across the map fastest”.

Also the few ghost items there were didn’t heighten the competition in any way really, it still felt like you couldn’t really interact with the other player in any way. That and it lacked both the freedom and fluidity of contracts and the unique problem solving of escalations.

I have a few different ideas for PVP modes that I think would be cool modes in the future:

A kind of “NPC hunt”, where the player has to blend in and act like an NPC to avoid getting killed by The other player while completing various side objectives (think like Spy party). The objectives could be anything ranging from hacking laptops, cracking open safes, to destroying certain objectives, to even killing people and hiding their bodies. Riskier objectives would give more progression, and maybe at the end you get the parts to build a sniper rifle or access to where the other player is and kill your opponent? Hell, we already have sniper assassin maps, this is effectively that just against another player.

Or it could be a game like “the ship”, where it’s a multiplayer experience where players have to kill other players, but they don’t know who is coming to kill them. The players can’t get caught killing each other from various NPC’s and cameras, but those areas provide much more safety for hunted players. Players would have to move around the map to do certain things normally (in the ship this was fulfilled by basic needs: food, water, bathroom, entertainment, etc. and it could work much in the same way) the things needed to be done could be jobs like cleaning floors, fixing faulty electronics, working at computers, serving food and drinks, or other things. This could effectively be amazing with an integration of the disguise system. Is the person serving you your food your assassin who wants to kill you, or are they just a person doing their job/tasks for the round?

Perhaps a kind of PVP mode where you couldn’t directly kill or see each other with weapons or explosives, but instead had to set up clever accidents and traps. This would require a more fluid system of setting up accidents than we have currently (perhaps one that makes puddles and allows us to place gas canisters and tripwires around more). There’s a game called “It steals” with a mode / enemy that works like this called “the phantom”. Maybe you couldn’t directly see each other, but you knew the other player would have to go to a certain area(s) to kill NPC’s or do other objectives that you could then ambush them there. Or maybe it could be like “The Hidden” (source game).

[Frote7]

@Courier6

I think it was more that the mode felt flawed in its execution and the lack of ability to interact with the other player. It more incentivized knocking out everyone remotely near the target loudly before killing them, instead of any kind of stealth mechanics. It was t really about stealth or combat, but rather “who can get across the map fastest”.

There was way more to it than that, just look at the tournament matches of some great players: it’s quite tactical.

@Courier6

Also the few ghost items there were didn’t heighten the competition in any way really, it still felt like you couldn’t really interact with the other player in any way.

The ghost mine definitely made an impact when placed strategically, forcing the other player to either go the long way around, or die and lose his stuff.

The biggest problem was the following cycle:

Dont want to spend limited resources on updates/patches/fixes for the mode-> less interest from players → Dont want to spend limited resources on updates/patches/fixes for the mode-> less interest from players-> etc.

(you can pick wherever the cycle started).

That was the downfall. No patches/fixed/updates for the mode & no new maps, caused players to lose interest, and IO on the other side felt it wasnt worth it.

The mode itself was great fun however, and had a ton of potential.

[47Agent]

@Frote7

That was the downfall. No patches/fixed/updates for the mode & no new maps, caused players to lose interest

I’ve posted this before, specifically for Xbox:

@47Agent

When GM first dropped it was fun. It died after ioi made unnecessary changes to it. First they changed the initial target locations (originally the first target was relatively near where you started). That slowed down the game considerably. Then they changed the Ghostcrate items (whole games played with only cocaine bricks, soda cans and other blunt melee items). And then the nail in the coffin was the decision to add Santa Fortuna plus all the ghost items. After that, at least on Xbox, no one wanted to play anymore. As soon as Santa Fortuna would start people would immediately quit. Killed the whole mode.

Maybe people on other systems saw it differently, but on Xbox those changes killed the activity level. No patches/fixed/updates for the mode & no new maps didn’t help, agreed, but that isn’t what caused the initial downfall of Ghost Mode.

[Switcher]

@Courier6

It more incentivized knocking out everyone remotely near the target loudly before killing them, instead of any kind of stealth mechanics.

GM3 Highlight: Switcher vs. Agent-420: Sniper Kill

The greatest kill I have ever had in this game as a whole, not just ghost mode, and the fact it happend in Ghost Mode makes it better.

[schatenjager]

I’m not qualified to speak to the mode with any level of detail really, but if it had been free, it probably would have gotten a lot more popularity, I’ll agree.

[zombiestien567]

I miss ghost mode fun back in the day but i would love a full coop mode with 47 and 17

[Frote7]

I completely disagree with all those things you listed, and with your conclusion in the end.

[CamTheChest]

@47Agent

When GM first dropped it was fun. It died after ioi made unnecessary changes to it. First they changed the initial target locations (originally the first target was relatively near where you started). That slowed down the game considerably. Then they changed the Ghostcrate items (whole games played with only cocaine bricks, soda cans and other blunt melee items). And then the nail in the coffin was the decision to add Santa Fortuna plus all the ghost items. After that, at least on Xbox, no one wanted to play anymore. As soon as Santa Fortuna would start people would immediately quit. Killed the whole mode.

Are you able to provide a source/statistic in regard to how individual updates made to Ghost Mode affected its overall interest?

[Switcher]

It sounds like you didn’t joined F7SC in time for that game mode, the tournament was awesome, and being honest, it’s a milestone better than RR, RR feels like a pattern, GM is new every time you play it, that’s what made it great.

[TheChicken]

@Courier6

It more incentivized knocking out everyone remotely near the target loudly before killing them, instead of any kind of stealth mechanics. It was t really about stealth or combat, but rather “who can get across the map fastest”.

I recall there being a very strange “feature”, where you could get a free point by causing an accident (usually fall-kill) to a target in full view of any other NPC.
You wouldn’t really “get away with it”, but if it was the last target you needed to win, it would be so cheap to win by killing the target with no regard to SA, or having that occur to you.

It was a mode that encouraged and rewarded memorization, given all the NPCs and target routes were the same, every area they’d appear in. There’s some small variation in when it would occur in a match, but it’s a strange kind of strategy in a multiplayer game.
I get that’s why the speedrunning community really took to liking it – I did too, especially for the novelty of a MP mode – and I commend the insane plays people could do I’d never have thought of.

But something just felt a bit off about its execution for casual play.
I feel like it would (obviously) have benefitted more from having more content and maps
Santa Fortuna didn’t really help when it dropped – being a map with lots of running, and everyone had gotten used to the one map for 6 months already
I wonder how it would have fared with a Silent-Assassin-centric points system. Encourage clean, spotless kills on each target, and for fairness, reset NPC knowledge after every target round.
And, I dunno, shift NPCs routes around a bit, add some variety to who’s an enforcer or not.

A lot of what I’m pitching I’m hoping might come true in Freelancer, but I feel like Ghost Mode as it was still deserved some tweaking.

[Switcher]

@TheChicken

I recall there being a very strange “feature”, where you could get a free point by causing an accident (usually fall-kill) to a target in full view of any other NPC.

That was any accident, and the pros in the tournaments would be doing these all the time if there wasn’t an option to get the kill without getting spotted, I mean, afair death didn’t affected the score or anything, it’d just spawn you like 100m from the targets.

@TheChicken

But something just felt a bit off about its execution for casual play.

Isn’t every game a bit harder for casuals? Pros usually set the bar really high and when getting into a fight with a pro while being a casual would usually mean that you would lose.

[47Agent]

No, it’s just based on available matches after those changes were implemented. I saw a massive decrease in activity after each one of those changes.

There was still a handful of people who played regularly, but that was it. So if you played it after those changes, you basically had to play multiple matches with the same group of players. As opposed to before that when you could easily play 10-20 matches a day with different people each time.

But nothing scientific.

[47Agent]

I’m aware of the tournaments that were hosted by people on here, but the participants were essentially the “regulars” I mentioned from every platform. There were still small groups of people playing, but not like before the changes I mentioned above (on Xbox).

[Switcher]

Not only regulars, it had lots of people joining in, and ofcourse we did it for the fun of playing Ghost Mode, not just for the pure competition, that was lots of fun.

[Frote7]

@47Agent

First they changed the initial target locations (originally the first target was relatively near where you started)

This was a good change. Having the first targets location be pre-determined by your startin location got stale very quick, and the game wouldnt really get started until the 2nd target.

@47Agent

Then they changed the Ghostcrate items (whole games played with only cocaine bricks, soda cans and other blunt melee items).

Find/memorise better crates.

@47Agent

And then the nail in the coffin was the decision to add Santa Fortuna plus all the ghost items

Santa Fortuna was far more interesting and complex than Miami for GM. And ghost mines were great.

@Switcher

it’s a milestone better than RR, RR feels like a pattern, GM is new every time you play it

GM is far more pattern based than RR

[Switcher]

@Frote7

GM is far more pattern based than RR

RR is all about unique strats of each target and killing them as fast as possible, at this point it feels like a speedrun race where you just wanna see who does it the fastest first, it’s all about pre thought strats and patterns.

[Frote7]

@Switcher

at this point it feels like a speedrun race where you just wanna see who does it the fastest first

Wdym at this point? That was always a core element. Same applies to GM btw.

@Switcher

it’s all about pre thought strats and patterns.

GM is way more about that.

You enjoying GM more than RR is fine, to each their own. But GM simply is far more pattern based than RR is.

[Switcher]

Let’s agree to disagree then, like you, I played both, and GM has way more improvising then RR, if you get caught in GM you need to think what to do, you can just get rid of that NPC quickly, or that could turn into a firefight asap, in RR there is no option of failing, you end up for lots of the time doing what you planned for very long, how to take each disguise, how to isolate each target, in GM it’s on the spot, in RR lots of it is usually pre planned, thats why I ended up enjoying GM more, there was always that feel off, what do I do now? In RR I might already have planned it in the menu screen. GM >>>>>>>> RR.

[Frote7]

@Switcher

in RR there is no option of failing

Lol what

@Switcher

you end up for lots of the time doing what you planned for very long, how to take each disguise, how to isolate each target

You’d be suprised. The fact that there are still spins popping up that completely throw off even the most expierenced players says enough. There is lots of mini improvs and quick thinking required, especially in the planning phase.

@Switcher

there was always that feel off, what do I do now?

Might just be you though. With a fixed numbers of GM targets (that are always in the same area) it was pretty obvious what to do exactly for each target, and very easy and fast to learn.

It’s not a suprise that in a GM match between good players the score would almost always go 4-4, and then have the luck factor of where the last target spawns in to determine the winner, especially on Miami.

Not such thing in RR.

@Switcher

GM >>>>>>>> RR.

To each their own.

@Switcher

Let’s agree to disagree then

Im not arguing about which is better/more enjoyable. That’s up to you. GM being more pattern based is not an opinion though.