no I don’t even use it
Yeah but a bullet going through the head accompanied by a sound of a gunshot will never look like an accident.
The Silent part in Silent Assassin is not about not making noises over a certain amount of decibels per se, it’s about your kills being discreet and unnoticed. Either by doing them away from the public’s eyes or covering them up as an accidents. Of course, all the murders will be uncovered eventually, but only after 47 leaves the scene.
Right, well the challenge for a silent assassin made by sniping in a new game ideally would be the sniping would be a lot more challenging than it is in its current state, with accurate shots requiring a lot more skill having to account for factors like wind, distance, bullet drop off, sound and muzzle flash, having less time to aim, etc…
Not to mention my concept of sniper rifles being harder to conceal in its current state (can’t just shove a sniper rifle in a briefcase, either you have to take time to assemble it on the spot or have a longer/harder to carry/suspicious type of carrying case).
I mean silent assassin has only gotten more stringent in recent games (mainly blood money, absolution, and WOA), all the games up to contracts allowed people to find bodies and still retain silent assassin.
I mean one could classify “silent assassin” as being invisible / unseen, blending into the crowd and going unseen and unnoticed. It doesn’t necessarily have to mean physically silent as in no noise was ever made.
Right, but even with that, it works. Just as a poisoning works in full view of witnesses, blowing someone up with a bomb or sniping them should also still allow SA on the grounds that 47 is far away when it happens and nobody o one’s who did it. People can see what happened, but not who is responsible, so the assassination is still discrete and secret because everybody is just
In order to earn the Silent Assassin rank, there are a lot of different ways that a target can be killed. They don’t have to be accidents. If I shoot the target in the face and no one finds the body, it’s still considered a “silent assassin” job. If 47 snipes someone and the body is never found, silent assassin should/would still apply.
Accidents are just preferable most of the time because they negate the need for the body to remain hidden (barring the No Bodies Found complication).
Edit: obviously that wouldn’t apply to Heisenberg’s rules of perfection, as that requires more specific types of kills and circumstances.
Depends on whether you’re going for accidents or direct murders, as each allows some things that the other does not.
Which is exactly my point
No it shouldn’t.
You’re gonna need to explain this part again because so far I understand that players would need to measure the distance between them and the target with a ruler until it’s big enough to be SA?.. what.
Then neither should poison, based on whatever grounds you think these shouldn’t.
The items, dude. You use a sniper rifle, you shoot the target from a distance, nobody sees you do it, they just see the dead body, with no assailant around, the game grades SA on those terms, unlike if you should use a handgun/shotgun/Submachine gun, accounting for panic as a factor in using such a weapon, but still nobody knowing what’s going on or who is responsible. You use a bomb, nobody else gets hurt, nobody sees you plant it or activate it, the game grades you on a different curve for using a bomb instead of a knife or fiber wire, accounting for panic as a factor in using such a weapon, but still nobody knowing what’s going on or who is responsible. Silent assassin is still obtained in both cases because of the weapon used being exceptions to the rule of what can be used to kill in public without losing the rank, so long as nobody actively witnesses the player perform the actions.
C’mon man, it took me less than 20 seconds to figure out how to make that work.
Yes it should. Just like it was in SA and Contracts.
Maybe, but that’s a topic for another time to discuss
This is just insanely specific. According to this, if I get to the target close enough to see them, peek through the corner unseen and shoot them with a handgun, I don’t get SA. But if I grabbed a briefcase with the sniper rifle, and did everything the same way except using the rifle instead of the pistol, I get SA. Logic much?
Because apparently handgun/shotgun/etc. don’t cause panic?
Facts, arguments, proofs, logic for Heisenberg
Why? Simply because you want so? Silent Assassin has relatively consistent and for once in the franchise, understandable rules - don’t get spotted at suspicious activities, don’t kill non-targets, ensure the kills and bodies are unnoticed unless they are accidents. There is no point in changing that.
This also brings us to the question of balance. Sniper kills are unique as they can be done from so many places and such big distances, with no preparations whatsoever, therefore they are quite possibly the fastest and the easiest way to kill a target. So far you can do them SA if you manage to avoid the body getting found, that requires some actual additional effort. What is the point of getting close and using any other weapons or staging accidents, if that additional effort is not required according to your idea? SA is about challenge. When you dumb down the requirements for that challenge, you might as well remove it altogether, because you can always pass levels non-SA anyway.
And sorry, but pulling the “Balance doesn’t exist!.. because I don’t understand what that is” card is not gonna work here. If you don’t care about balance, then why should you care for SA? Play the game as you want, nobody forces you to play in a certain way… And all other arguments I’ve heard from you on other topics. I mean, you already play the game in your own way. Why are you suddenly concerned what the game “thinks” about your performance?
Also, very funny. You glorify 47 being an artist at what he does, inflict some crazy challenges upon yourself to add to that, even go so far and call other action heros amateurs, but now you suggest 47 has the same standards as Lee Harvey Oswald. Very disappointed in you.
Ochoa is wrong!!!
You are sorely mistaken, my friend. Firstly, a body found from any sort of kill would get you an alert. Any sort of kill - equalising “accidents” such as Fritz pool drowning, poison kills, and blasting one’s brains with a shotgun. Next, you can have only so many - only one body found, even if you keep all other stats low; maybe two in H2SA if you keep all other stats at zeroes (and no loud gunshots can be heard). Also, the point of all of that is that the rating systems in these games are a lot more forgiving overall, to make up for not so forgiving gameplay. WoA is a lot more versatile so it can make the rules more consistent - many options to pacify so no need for allowing some non-target kills like in previous games, many accidents and ways to hide bodies so no need for allowing a body being found etc.
The only exception I think are the car bombings in The Kirov Park Meeting. They indeed ignore non-target casualties and the bodies stay “inside” the car hence not found. In Wang Fou Ambush however, Blue Lotus members will fall out of the car and their many bodies can be found at once, immediately sabotaging the SA rank. Even if it was the other triad members finding the bodies, who you kill shortly after.
Edit: to the post below
Not really? You can shoot the actor while he’s being executed with whatever firearm and it will be considered an accident, yes. And obviously NPCs hearing things doesn’t violate SA. But otherwise you have to be fast, lucky or careful so NPCs do not found bodies. If they do, you won’t get SA.
Ok, I’m bookmarking this to respond in detail when I get home tonight, because I can’t address all that from my phone at work, but yeah, we gotta talk on this one, but, in defense of @MrOchoa, you can also use a bomb and sniper rifle in no less than two maps of Blood Money where they are within full sight/hearing range of NPCs, and still get SA, and those would be Curtains Down and A House of Cards. Quite frankly, those two are what I have in mind when making these points, but we’ll get to that this evening.
True. In exchange for staying at a dangerous location, allowing guards to surround you and having limited mobility after that, you get one less guard to take care of, you get his weapon, you get the hostage that buys you some time until all the others attack and that gets you a little protection for your health. While in WOA, you still have to engage in the QTE sequence while everyone else attacks you anyway, putting you in an extremely vulnerable position. Simply running away has no disadvantages at this point.
jaeger 7 mark 3 no cap
You are technically right, but you know what I meant
Actually, never mind. I think I’ve been part of enough controversial conversations in the forum today and there’s no reason to revisit this topic twelve hours later just to stir up another debate. Agree to disagree and we’ll discuss it if it ever comes up again.
They’re still silent if they were set up silently and no one knows it’s you. It’s silent in that no one even speaks a word about the prospect of an assassination having taken place.
With poison they don’t know that it was even poison. It’s made to look like natural causes. With an explosion, it’s only silent assassin if no one discovers the body clearly having been blown up by an explosive (NPCs can tell the difference between that and a gas leak for… reasons).
Making random exceptions on sniping makes no sense. What’s the difference between using a sniper on them from a long distance and using a high powered assault rifle? A sniper is just a high-powered, long-range rifle with a scope, not even technically a classification of gun, more a definition of how it’s used… creating such a definition in a game would obviously be very difficult though, as can be seen in the game by the fact you can get Sniper Assassin by “sniping” from 4 feet away. The game could set an arbitrary distance minimum, but that would be very arbitrary and it would be impossible to communicate to the player what distance they need to be and enforce that it’s your debatable definition of “real” sniping.
Use your imagination and think it over. I’ve already come up with the answer, and wish to avoid further discussion that will devolve into arguments that Urben will have to delete. Think on it more and the answer will come to you.
I just believe you’re thinking about a game design problem a bit naively. It’s a lot more complicated than you seem to be suggesting. Not all the players have brains as big as you, and a game needs to communicate its design clearly to them, in a way that’s not confusing, frustrating or incompatible with other systems.
Since it had already been done in Blood Money, problem solved.